Bass being commercially exploited again!?

There is currently no TAC (that's Total Allowable Catch) on Bass, how can you argue that they are in need of 'protection'?

It has been mentioned in this thread that the 51 30' N limit is approximately 50 km off shore - that is giving a false impression, it may be approx 50 km south of Youghal but is only about 12 km south of the Old Head of Kinsale and just over 3 km south of Galley Head. So unless I am mistaken the FIF's proposal calls for commercial Bass fishing to the south of 51 30' will be only a few kms off the South Cork coastline, well within the range of any small trawler/in shore fishing boat.

Hi RockHunter, aren't the areas you mention already closed, as shown in links that I have already posted?

I agree with RockHunter.

Tony Fella is driving epetition plus he's commited to print posters.
doggie3131 will work with me on text for the poster and I'll do the design and artwork. These are concrete actions. But yes, we need something more significant.

Possibly the reason no one committed is because there was nothing to commit to!

Hey, look at this:

Hi guys i havent said it to Dan yet. I will if people want to do that. I know he would meet he owes me one but i think for it to have an impact could people commit to coming to cork or dublin to meet him? Who? I believe a cross section of people with knowledge and facts about the ban and the likely consequences. People like jimh padge 73 graham hill kevin brain etc who are dependent on it for their livelihood and know the world of this fish inside out remember he would have to be educated on the matter . A representative of the hotel b&b industry. Someone with a knowledge of marine biology. A proper delegation with every aspect of this subject covered. I promise to set up a meeting once i know that people thinkits a good idea and want to attend

What is happening with Irishbass.org ??

I'm affraid that irishbass is non runner at the moment. But I do think that trying to get some data at least, from B.A.S.S. is sensible thing to do, espetially that some of you guys are members of the society.

I'm affraid that irishbass is non runner at the moment. But I do think that trying to get some data at least, from B.A.S.S. is sensible thing to do, espetially that some of you guys are members of the society.

Hang on, haven't you lot just been knocking foreign data as meaningless?

You can't have it both ways

SandTiger, I never said anything about meaningless data. If somebody got what we need we should try and use it - especially if we have nothing else. I think that it was me who was asking about B.A.S.S. on page 2 of this thread and I do think that if they acting towards resolving this issue (that was my understanding of JimH response) we should join them in this effort as this problem has nothing to do with political/national boundaries.

SandTiger, I never said anything about meaningless data. If somebody got what we need we should try and use it - especially if we have nothing else. I think that it was me who was asking about B.A.S.S. on page 2 of this thread and I do think that if they acting towards resolving this issue (that was my understanding of JimH response) we should join them in this effort as this problem has nothing to do with political/national boundaries.

Sorry Tommy, That wasn't aimed directly at you, but at those that see the proposal as an automatic encroachment into Irish local waters

However, since you raise it, Bass are not subject to TAC, and therein lies the problem, if you wish to sustain your sport over commercial fisheries?

The areas proposed by the Irish commercials are already being fished by the English, French, Spanish, Portuguese...

Why shouldn't the Irish have their slice of the cake?

The areas proposed by the Irish commercials are already being fished by the English, French, Spanish, Portuguese...

Why are these nations allowed fish for BASS in 'our' waters?
Is it down to 'Benefits' of Ireland being a member of the EU ?
How close to the Irish shore can these nations fish for BASS?
I presume the Government can only impose the law on Irish commercials in relation to BASS, which to be fair from an Irish commercial point of view would get on your wick if other commercials from the EU can take them and you cant.
Is the Government doing anything on a European level to highlight our ban on BASS, to try and convince other nations to adopt this approach, hence not fishing for BASS in 'our' waters?


I’m just trying to get a better picture of the current situation.


BTW, Welcome to SAI SandTiger

Hi sandtiger.

You made some excellent points to my message to you.
I don't have an answer to any of them.

I suppose you're right about me wanting to protect my hobby. However, I must say that I honestly do appreciate how hard working commercial fishermen are and I know that there are many honest commercial fishermen.

We all know that there are obviously plenty of dishonest ones too. Maybe that's the biggest problem of all here. If all commercial fishermen were honest, I'm sure that the rules and regulations, quotas and laws that are in place would be adhered to and maybe bass and all other sea fish species would be in a much more abundant state compared to what they are at this moment in time.

Anyway, as hard working as they are, and besides the fact that this is their livelihood, can't they just leave one species alone? Let's not forget that just because they decide to chose fishing as their livelihood doesn't mean they own every fish in the sea! There are thousands of people trying to make a livelihood from all things related to sea angling and specifically bass angling.

And in relation to all other species, I wonder if commercial fishermen actually realise that the threat to their livelihoods has transpired as a result of their own actions down the years through overfishing? Or maybe that was just down to bad management, I don't know for sure.

Well listen, thanks for all your input to this thread. You seem to have a wider eyed few than me and some serious insights into everything that is sea fish.

The best of luck with the charter this year.
Thanks again,
John D.

As stated previously on this thread.

Individual submissions addressed to your local TD and to Minister of State at the Dept of the Marine Conor Lenihen, are the first approach to take. As many as possible from individual anglers and key stakeholders.

Key Stakeholders being Tackle Shops, Accommodation Providers, Angling Guides, Anglers, Government Bodies and Agencies, Angling Clubs, etc.

To date I know that Fisheries Boards, Guides, and some individuals have made detailed submissions as outlined above.

All those debating on this thread, if not done so already, should now go away and make a submission as outlined above.

It can be as simple as stating how much your spend on Bass angling in Ireland within a twelve month period, ie, tackle, accommodation, travel, etc, but it has to be relevant and you must be able to back it up.

Then ask your friends, local tackle shop, angling club, to do the same.

That is the first approach, second is to form a group lobbying not just for Bass, but inshore fish stocks in total.

Very Interesting question RH - and you could add a few more 'occupations' to your list aswell - journalists, magazine editors, product development mngrs, tackle promoters and sellers,.......

Tommy and Tony well done for doing something concrete.

Very Interesting question RH - and you could add a few more 'occupations' to your list aswell - journalists, magazine editors, product development mngrs, tackle promoters and sellers,

I mentioned bass guides specificially as they will be the ones most affected, journalist can always write about pollock and wrasse fishing etc but pollock and wrasse guiding is probably a fairly limited market.

My point was that we need somebody with a lot of time at the moment to take the lead - liaise with all the relevant stakeholders, Bord Failte, Irish Hotels Federation, guest houses, restaurants, Vintners Association, Tackle Dealers, angling clubs etc. and organise meetings between the various interest along the lines that Patk suggested. That person should be highly knowlegeable about the issues and have leadership qualities - which is why I thought of bass guides specifically as they should have those qualities as well as some free time at the moment.

Hi RockHunter, aren't the areas you mention already closed, as shown in links that I have already posted?

Not sure what link you are referring to or the point you are making.
Do you mean closed to commercial bass fishing? - of course they are, the opening up of that is what we are trying to stop.

Hey Guys,
I’m currently working on design of the poster. I recon it would be beneficial if we could also put a internet address of a page where one could get more information on the issue. (link to epetition, email template, email addresses and detailed description of the issue). I think it should be irishbass.org domain.

I’m happy to prepare page as well or only wording for the page – but need to know if it would be possible to host the page on irishbass.org website?

I’m happy to prepare page as well or only wording for the page – but need to know if it would be possible to host the page on irishbass.org website?

Hi Tommy. Short answer ... yes. We can do something on IrishBass.org. If you want to send me draft wording I can do it tonight. I'm really short of time at the mo, which is why I need someone to put some wording together. I'll send you a PM.

Cheers,
J.

Lads
Just for clarity, this is the line south of which the FIF propose fishing for bass. Saying it is 50km off the SE coast is technically correct, but entirely disingenuous and misleading, the line actually crosses the SW coast, which would make inshore fishing legal in this area.

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Thanks for clarifying that Bradan, that's what I thought but then will all the talk of 50 km I was wondering if I had missed something.

So that makes the situation even more grave for us Cork anglers.

The areas proposed by the Irish commercials are already being fished by the English, French, Spanish, Portuguese...

Why are these nations allowed fish for Bass in 'our' waters?
Is it down to 'Benefits' of Ireland being a member of the EU ?
How close to the Irish shore can these nations fish for Bass?
I presume the Government can only impose the law on Irish commercials in relation to Bass, which to be fair from an Irish commercial point of view would get on your wick if other commercials from the EU can take them and you cant.
Is the Government doing anything on a European level to highlight our ban on Bass, to try and convince other nations to adopt this approach, hence not fishing for Bass in 'our' waters?


I’m just trying to get a better picture of the current situation.


BTW, Welcome to SAI SandTiger

Thanks Danny M

You have pretty much hit the nail on the head. It is domestic law and can only apply to Irish registered vessels. EU law supersedes it in relation to other EU vessels. Found this which will also help...

In waters within 12 nautical miles of their coast EU member states exercise exclusivity, in the area known as the
territorial coastal waters. Ireland’s territorial waters are approximately 41000km2 in extent. Ireland retains exclusive
access to fisheries in this zone with exception in the case of certain fisheries, in restricted locations, between 6-12nm
where France, Netherlands, Germany, Belgium and U.K. have fishing rights. In waters within 6 nautical miles of the
coast Irish vessels have sole access to fisheries with the exception of Northern Irish vessels who can also fish, under
certain conditions, in this zone.

Source: http://www.marine.ie/NR/rdonlyres/1475C ... _Dec09.pdf

The best of luck with the charter this year.
Thanks again,
John D.

Thanks for the kind words John D, interestingly we are having one of the best winters for Cod on the North of Scotland. People who have fished here for years can't remember it being so good. Equally during the last two summers the water temp has been higher than normal which has maybe been responsible for them preferring deeper waters but warmer waters should be good for pushing the Bass up to Ireland?

Lads
Just for clarity, this is the line south of which the FIF propose fishing for Bass. Saying it is 50km off the SE coast is technically correct, but entirely disingenuous and misleading, the line actually crosses the SW coast, which would make inshore fishing legal in this area.

That would depend. If you look at the chart on page 5 of this PDF - http://www.marine.ie/NR/rdonlyres/1475C ... _Dec09.pdf

Then you'll note the large pink box which is Biologically Sensitive Area (BSA)...

The open access to fisheries resources in the EEZ of members states EEZ is in some cases modified. One example is
the Biologically Sensitive Area (BSA) (Figure 3), established in 2002 to protect nursery grounds to the west and south
of Ireland. Access of non-Irish vessels to the BSA is restricted and effort regimes also apply to Irish vessels fishing in
the BSA.

Source - http://www.marine.ie/NR/rdonlyres/1475C ... _Dec09.pdf

So your first port of call might be to establish if commercial fishing for Bass is being proposed for inside the BSA, I would be surprised if it were to be allowed, as it would render the BSA obsolete. And it is very important not to go off, half-cocked, thus losing all credibility in the first round.

Hi RockHunter, aren't the areas you mention already closed, as shown in links that I have already posted?

Not sure what link you are referring to or the point you are making.
Do you mean closed to commercial Bass fishing? - of course they are, the opening up of that is what we are trying to stop.

Please see my post above re: Biologically Sensitive Areas (BSA)

Lads
Just for clarity, this is the line south of which the FIF propose fishing for Bass. Saying it is 50km off the SE coast is technically correct, but entirely disingenuous and misleading, the line actually crosses the SW coast, which would make inshore fishing legal in this area.

That would depend. If you look at the chart on page 5 of this PDF - http://www.marine.ie/NR/rdonlyres/1475C ... _Dec09.pdf

Then you'll note the large pink box which is Biologically Sensitive Area (BSA)...

The open access to fisheries resources in the EEZ of members states EEZ is in some cases modified. One example is
the Biologically Sensitive Area (BSA) (Figure 3), established in 2002 to protect nursery grounds to the west and south
of Ireland. Access of non-Irish vessels to the BSA is restricted and effort regimes also apply to Irish vessels fishing in
the BSA.

Source - http://www.marine.ie/NR/rdonlyres/1475C ... _Dec09.pdf

So your first port of call might be to establish if commercial fishing for Bass is being proposed for inside the BSA, I would be surprised if it were to be allowed, as it would render the BSA obsolete. And it is very important not to go off, half-cocked, thus losing all credibility in the first round.

The FIF proposal makes no mention of the BSA, and specifically states south of (51.30’N) in area VII, from which it is natural to assume that they wish to fish all of that area.
If the FIF had any commitment to conservation or sustainable management of stocks then I would expect the BSA to be specifically mentioned in their proposal. The fact that it isn't says enough to me.