Celebrating the catching of undersize species.

Benchmark of good angling is probably a better way to put than celebrating of catching undersize species, but unfortunately the benchmark is different for everybody, my father and I for instance would have fairly different views on this, purely because he was used to catching "real" fish as he calls them compared to what is common around the shore at the moment.
Is the benchmark decided on quality or quantity?
For me when pleasure fishing quality is the key but for match fishing that policy wont win too many comps. As i said earlier reporting should be about the good and the not so good sessions photos and all.

Eric

I think we're saying/seeing the same thing just slightly differently - of course I do benefit from angling tourism thats my job, thats how I try to make my living. I try to do my best to present the country in all the ways that you mentioned - this is evident from my work on www.probassfisher.com To me its the experience just like you say!
However and this is not a poor me story in any way. Having worked at it for the best seven years or so and brought people from all over the world to Wexford to some incredible quality fishing - where is what I do in terms of what I do (and others like me) celebrated or utilised by the promoters of angling tourism in this country, for both internal and external customers.
In other words rather than sticking a photograph of my house with my name and address under it on some website - and calling it promotion - the singular level of frustration that I experience at trying to get imagination and creativity to support a small business in an active bass fishery needs to be experienced to be believed.
I have done everything to make the service as professional as possible over the last seven years - courses in adult education, courses in rural business development, courses in communication, courses in how to train - the one course I cant get, the one that I need the most - The marine and angling guiding course I cant get because of bureacracy - it doesnt exist anymore. I have tried now for seven years just to start it...

I have insurances, first aids, travel exceptions - and people visiting SEAi from all over Ireland on workshops, people from 12 different countries came here last year, many came on workshops from Ireland - where is this captured mentioned, utilised, promoted not neccessarily for my sake but for the potential behind the country and its fishing. Surely this is an asset, only one of a few we have left.

As an activity, angling isnt even mentioned on the first page of www.discoverireland.ie -

Unless you have the strength of purpose and belief can you do it for yourself (but doing if for yourself is not enough) or of course if you have 'access' or 'pseudo credibility' - only then of course will you be lauded.
The hard work, the actual work, the sustainability, the social contributions economic and others and intrinsic value done on the ground during the seasons..............where?

huh, are they? your proposal is to attempt to cripple jobs that benifit from angling related tourism in a recession, as tesco says 'every little helps' (never thought i'd agree with tesco). jim you above all people should understand that mac's opinion is senceless, do you not benifit from tourist coming to ireland to sample our Bass fishing? our forte? if somene asks me, 'what do you think about coming to ireland for an angling holiday?' il tell them the thruth, its got some amazing places to fish, some beautiful unspoilt beaches and rock marks. great hospitality, great food, great pints, great Bass fishing, decent boat fishing and the oppertunity to really rack up some rare and unusual species, but don't come overexpectant on the basis of henry gilbey's films and sea anglers dribble.

and in relation to ashley's remarks, and i can hardly seeing a potential tourist go, 'eric? there seems to be a lot of small fish reported in sea angling ireland, i dont think il go to ireland now'.

lets get through these economic tough times, by encouraging as much incoming revenue from other countries as possible and not add another nail in the coffin. then when we get back to stable economic growth you can worry about your vandetas, but now is not the time.

Hi Eric, I'll try comment specifically on a couple of points you make above.

huh, are they? your proposal is to attempt to cripple jobs that benifit from angling related tourism in a recession, as tesco says 'every little helps' (never thought i'd agree with tesco).

Angling tourisim is already on it's knees and cripeled right accross the country. Ask any B&B owner, Guide or Ghillie. I have had this discussion with many of them. My proposal is to try highlight this to the eejits that pretend to run the country. Let the goverment know that the are already loosing revenue and jobs in this sector and this it has been on-going for some time. B&B's right accross the county are getting a fraction of their angling guests. This has been supplemented by regular visitors over the last few years, but now with a Global recession these normal holiday makers have dissapeared. I used to meet a lot of angling tourists on my travels around Ireland. Now I am meeting very few visiting anglers. I will often have a chat with these guys over a beer and a vast majority are very frustrated with angling in Ireland. They only come back for nostalgia reasons, but many are planning to start fishing new destinations accross Europe. Just a small few examples

Excellent Lure Pike and Perch Fishing in Sweeded.
Salmon fishing in Norway and beyond.
Cracking Cod fishing in Norway.
Proper Shore fishing in Iceland

Why the hell would anyone visit Ireland, The only reason I can see you have outlined above. "The great scenery, and the craic" ... "the experience" as Jim mentioned.
If we can start to get some quality fishing back we will start to see the anglers again.

The Salmon lobby (STOP) highlighted that a Rod caught Salmon was worth €520 to the Irish Economy and Netted Salmon was worth €20.
They managed to lobby the goverment into a drift net ban.

Why can't sea anglers follow suite...... Lets start with a few simple & cheap solutions to get the ball rolling. Cheap is best at the moment

Guides still get business (Thankfully) as there services are required even more now. This is due to the fact that you really need to know your area and how the conditions effect it to get the best out of it and try land one of the few decent fish left.

If we had consistent decent fishing, there could be more guides, and maybe these empty B&B's would start to see some angling guests again. Maybe then the pics of undersize fish would dissapear as there will be pictures of bigger fish to replace them

lets get through these economic tough times, by encouraging as much incoming revenue from other countries as possible and not add another nail in the coffin. then when we get back to stable economic growth you can worry about your vandetas, but now is not the time.

What happens when we get through these tough economic times?? I'll tell you what, this goverment will take their eye off tourisim again. Once things are on the mend, and their too busy patting their own backs, these guys will not want to know about Tourisim and the potentional revenue as the money will be coming in from elsewhere. Things will go back to normal (Doing feck all) and Mederitian tactics will be the norm for Irish Sea Angling.

I would go in the exact opposite direction here. Now is the time for Angling Tourisim to make it's point heard.... NOW, When the goverment are starting to look at the tourisim sector and how to get it performing again. We need to let them know the reasons why angling tourisim is on it's knees and point them towards a few very simple steps that would at least get things moving in the right direction.

Maybe my opinion is not so "scenceless" afterall



Kev

Howdy lads, I haven't properly posted on this site for a long time, but this is an interesting debate.

Firstly, I would just like to say that what i post is my opinion and it may differ from yours. Just bear that in mind.

So here goes, i'm only going to comment on the few points i have a view on that have been brought up. Firstly, I think that the comment that Ashley made regarding using rigs that target the bigger fish isn't very well thought out. The stretch of coastline that i have access to is maybe 15 miles long at the most. Yes, it is possible to catch a decent fish on this stretch of coastline others and myself(once or twice) have proved this. BUT, i challenge anyone, even the most dedicated angler, to fish one session a week(which is all i have time for) using rigs and bait for bigger fish and almost certainly blank every time for weeks on end. I don't know about everyone else, but i don't find that idea very appealing. The reality is that lots of marks around the country are like this.

I'm sure that its fine for the people who have transport, the time and the money to travel to a mark where there is a better chance of a decent fish, but i don't, and i'm sure i'm not unique in that respect. This leads me on to another point that Ashley has brought up. He asks us if we have settled for second best? No we damn well haven't, we haven't "settled" for anything, we have been forced into catching small fish, because more often than not thats all thats there.

There is something else that i have seen in this debate that Ashley has brought up, is that i hear references to the fishing in the late 70s to the late 80s. I know this might seem a bit pessimistic but THOSE DAYS WILL NEVER COME AGAIN. Get over it. The scientists will keep saying that this level of fishing can't go on, they will keep trying to get the quotas cut, the politicians will say its a good idea, and then the fishing industry will flex its hold over said politicians and the quotas will end up with a tiny reduction if we are lucky, and more often than not, no cut at all. Yes, i will keep sending e-mails, i will keep signing petitions, and it wont even make the smallest difference.

One last point, It might have been said before, but you have to ask yourself what makes a report of a big fish special? For me, i can appreciate a large fish of any species at any time but after looking through lots of reports of small fish and then seeing that monster really gives it the "wow" factor. People need to see the small fish that an angler catches, they put the big ones into perspective.

Just my view of things as an angler that doesn't fish anymore.

Alex

P.S. It seems i have picked on Ashley Hayden for most of that post, i mean no disrespect, it just happens that yours are the views that differ to mine. A very good thread though.

I have to reply to Fishinmidget.

Yes it has been a good debate, and no I do not mind being referenced as I have stuck my neck over the parapet with my views.

I too more or less stopped sea angling, except for Bass spinning and plugging, from around 1993-2007. I just felt that relative to what I had experienced it was not worth it, and concentrated on family, work, and sport. However in 2007 I did come back and am glad that I made the decision to. Yes things are far from ideal, but I have learned to be a better angler, and now target species that are still available and grow to a good average size.

Yes I miss the clean fish that we used to catch off the east coast beaches, but there are positives.

The Bass conservation measure proves that with a properly thought out campaign fish stocks and size of fish can improve. Therefore it is not unreasonable to believe that inshore fish stocks will improve over time. If we do nothing they won't, but I feel a change is coming and that the sea angling community and wider general public will come together and demand environmental improvements in our coastal waters. After all it is a right.

Shore: Bass, Tope, Smooth Hound, Mullet, Flounder, Wrasse, Pollack, Gilthead Bream, Triggerfish, Conger, Bull Huss, Various Ray, Ling, various Gurnard.

Boat: All the above plus add on Skate, Cod, Coalfish, Various Shark, Haddock.

All the above may, and I do conceed with a little travel involved, still be caught to a good if not specimen size around our coastal waters. This should now be our benchmark from which we as anglers should demand improvements.

Consider what the coastline in your area throws up to a good size and give it a go, you could be pleasently surprised, I know that I was.

ok read most of the posts but not all, the gist i get (and no offence Ashley) is that the Central Fisheries Board would like us to do the job that they get very well paid for.
We are to conserve, promote and report the non existant magical fishing which the CFB are supposed to protect, we are to lobby and report illegal netting etc which is not acted upon and now also lie about what is really being caught so the fishing in Ireland looks better than it is.
hmmmmmm I DON'T THINK SO.
the question was asked in a previous post and quickly side stepped, what are the CFB doing about any of this exactly, apart for picking up a pay check at the end of the week.
Sadly there isn't great fishing out there and adam2040 and others know my opinion on it, i would rather catch 1 good fish than a load of small ones. Are you going to catch a good fish everytime you go fishing nope you'er not and the more often you fish the more small ones you will catch until the people employed and paid by our taxes get the bloody finger out.

appoligies to anybody offended by this, but i don't really care

Yes it has been a good debate, and no I do not mind being referenced as I have stuck my neck over the parapet with my views.

Yes things are far from ideal, but I have learned to be a better angler, and now target species that are still available and grow to a good average size.

Yes I miss the clean fish that we used to catch off the east coast beaches, but there are positives.

The Bass conservation measure proves that with a properly thought out campaign fish stocks and size of fish can improve. Therefore it is not unreasonable to believe that inshore fish stocks will improve over time. If we do nothing they won't, but I feel a change is coming and that the sea angling community and wider general public will come together and demand environmental improvements in our coastal waters. After all it is a right.

Shore: Bass, Tope, Smooth Hound, Mullet, Flounder, Wrasse, Pollack, Gilthead Bream, Triggerfish, Conger, Bull Huss, Various Ray, Ling, various Gurnard.

Boat: All the above plus add on Skate, Cod, Coalfish, Various Shark, Haddock.

All the above may, and I do conceed with a little travel involved, still be caught to a good if not specimen size around our coastal waters. This should now be our benchmark from which we as anglers should demand improvements.

Consider what the coastline in your area throws up to a good size and give it a go, you could be pleasently surprised, I know that I was.

you make some good points ashley but its not as simple as that. lets go to your shore list for a second,bass,very scarce on the mayo,sligo,galway coastline,tope i know one mark where they MIGHT be caught from the shore,smoothhound,don't know any marks on the west coast,mullet,pollock,wrasse,flounder, loads of marks, in season,gilthead bream,triggerfish none from the shore,conger,bull huss,rays,fine from the shore,ling and gurnard not regulary caught from the shore on the west coast. so from your list,conger,flounder,mullet,pollock,wrasse,bull huss,and ray are caught on a regular basis,but from this ,three would be caught during the winter on the west coast,flounder conger and ray.as a full time carer on a very limited budget and with the sea at least an hour away,i cannot afford to travel far afield too often as cost would be a mitigating factor,am i supposed to stay away from the sea until i can afford to travel to the good spots to catch,"decent fish"i go fishing to get away from the stresses of being a carer 24 hours a day and will go to marks where i will catch fish,i want to catch big "decent fish"but am quiet happy to catch anything!well nearly anything! young fish go back as quickly and carefully as possible,but when that rod tip indicates a bite im never happier!and thats why i go fishing,for the relaxion and the buzz of catching a fish,and if it is a bit small,it does not take away from the pleasure of catching it.Then there is the pleasure of posting the report,pics and all,and reading the comments of friends i have been lucky to make on this site who have helped turn this angler from an adverge to an improver.In my opinion this is what this site is all about.

Yes it has been a good debate, and no I do not mind being referenced as I have stuck my neck over the parapet with my views.

Yes things are far from ideal, but I have learned to be a better angler, and now target species that are still available and grow to a good average size.

Yes I miss the clean fish that we used to catch off the east coast beaches, but there are positives.

The Bass conservation measure proves that with a properly thought out campaign fish stocks and size of fish can improve. Therefore it is not unreasonable to believe that inshore fish stocks will improve over time. If we do nothing they won't, but I feel a change is coming and that the sea angling community and wider general public will come together and demand environmental improvements in our coastal waters. After all it is a right.
Shore: Bass, Tope, Smooth Hound, Mullet, Flounder, Wrasse, Pollack, Gilthead Bream, Triggerfish, Conger, Bull Huss, Various Ray, Ling, various Gurnard.

Boat: All the above plus add on Skate, Cod, Coalfish, Various Shark, Haddock.

All the above may, and I do conceed with a little travel involved, still be caught to a good if not specimen size around our coastal waters. This should now be our benchmark from which we as anglers should demand improvements.

Consider what the coastline in your area throws up to a good size and give it a go, you could be pleasently surprised, I know that I was.

you make some good points ashley but its not as simple as that. lets go to your shore list for a second,Bass,very scarce on the mayo,sligo,galway coastline,tope i know one mark where they MIGHT be caught from the shore,smoothhound,don't know any marks on the west coast,mullet,pollock,wrasse,flounder, loads of marks, in season,gilthead bream,triggerfish none from the shore,conger,bull huss,rays,fine from the shore,ling and gurnard not regulary caught from the shore on the west coast. so from your list,conger,flounder,mullet,pollock,wrasse,bull huss,and ray are caught on a regular basis,but from this ,three would be caught during the winter on the west coast,flounder conger and ray.as a full time carer on a very limited budget and with the sea at least an hour away,i cannot afford to travel far afield too often as cost would be a mitigating factor,am i supposed to stay away from the sea until i can afford to travel to the good spots to catch,"decent fish"i go fishing to get away from the stresses of being a carer 24 hours a day and will go to marks where i will catch fish,i want to catch big "decent fish"but am quiet happy to catch anything!well nearly anything! young fish go back as quickly and carefully as possible,but when that rod tip indicates a bite im never happier!and thats why i go fishing,for the relaxion and the buzz of catching a fish,and if it is a bit small,it does not take away from the pleasure of catching it.Then there is the pleasure of posting the report,pics and all,and reading the comments of friends i have been lucky to make on this site who have helped turn this angler from an adverge to an improver.In my opinion this is what this site is all about.

you hit the nail on the head there doggie..and flounder dont seem to be too plentyful at the moment either.
Although i have plenty of time on my hands...being 17 and not driving 95% of the time my only choice of venue is salthill.
Now in salthill in the moment you would be lucky to get a fish touching 35 cms max...most are between 14-25 cms. In winter you rarely get anything big...in the summer its slightly better. But i still love heading down to the beach to get away from everything and just do what i love...fishing...as doggie said seeing the rod tip nod indicating a bite never gets old...each time is as exciting as the next for me..i dont mind getting some small fish cause they are a lot better then getting nothing. Although i dont take pictures of everything i catch sometimes i do...if the fish is handled correctly and only kept out of the water for a few seconds it will be fine...they always swim away for me anyway. Of course i would love to be catching big fish all the time..but its not possible! Anytime im lucky enough to fish somewhere else but salthill i target "decent fish" but i just found around this time in my area you would seriously be wasting your time...(although i still do every now and again). If its between fishing and getting small fish or not fishing at all i think id rather catch small ones! As for posting pictures of small fish in reports...i cant see the harm, they all swim back, im not trying to promote fishing in the country...its not my job, im just showing friends what i caught on that day..thats all

We're well over the 100 post mark now with this topic, the unfortunately named " Celebrating the catching of undersize species", and i've read all of the points of view. To my reasoning, the post was intended to stop people posting photos of undersize fish, as this does not do anything to improve the image of sea angling, and to strive towards quality rather than quantity. For my part, i've been lucky enough to have had over 100 sessions during 2009, the vast majority of these have been at so-called handy marks, such as Bray Harbour, Wicklow Harbour, and Greystones, but i've also fished the beaches of Courtown, Arklow, Ennereilly, Kilgorman, Kilcoole, Brittas, Tramore, Saleens, Kilfarassey, and Bannow Bay Wexford. I've fished Piers at Dun Laoghaire, Cahore, South Bull Wall,and even Sir John Rogersons Quay in Dublin City centre. I enjoyed all my time at all these marks, then when i got home i enjoyed posting the reports during those times when i couldnt get out fishing.A lot of the fish caught would have been small, but there were a few gems along the way,some decent bass, smoothies, gurnards, ray, coalies, pollock, ling and flounder among others and not all caught where they would be expected to be caught. Some of the small fish would have been caught on the so-called productive beaches and some of the decent ones caught at the handy marks,,,,,,,,and vice versa . These handy marks are not that handy in the middle of winter, with gales and rain in your face and temperatures sometimes below freezing. Now to the issue of posting pics of undersize fish,,i do it all the time so i suppose in Ashleys eyes i'm damaging the image of sea angling in Ireland,,,,,,,,but in my view i'm posting an honest report of the session i 've just come in from.Will my photo turn a foreign angler off visiting Ireland, I dont think so and what about us Irish anglers, dont alienate us. We spend our money here too, mostly buy our tackle and bait from local sources and spend money on fuel when travelling to marks. This site has seen anglers making friends all round this Island, north and south,so i dont think the photos on it have damaged the image of angling in Ireland, in fact i think the opposite. If I get a decent fish , i'll post the photo like a flash when i get home, but if i'm 5 hours in the cold and rain and its looking like a blank for Eyes,then a little twitch and a 25cm codling is landed, that would also make my night so i'll post the pic. The reports are what attracted me to this site in the first place and not photos of big fish and i would hate to see them being diluted down and only the best fish being reported. As i was told when growing up, "Honesty is the best policy", so dont make people afraid to post their pics for fear of being ridiculed and made to seem small. I'm glad to read here that the vast majority of people on this site wouldnt be in favour of some sort of censorship of the undersize fish photos I hope that message has come across

put across very well after all the expense and hardship ie digging bait making time driving in all weathers and fishing in all weathers for fish i think this is what angling is all about fishing for fish i think il try some big game fishing off howth pier there has to be something feeding on all them small fish

put across very well after all the expense and hardship ie digging bait making time driving in all weathers and fishing in all weathers for fish i think this is what angling is all about fishing for fish i think il try some big game fishing off howth pier there has to be something feeding on all them small fish

thats the spirit man,conger to 40lb+,glad you changed your mind

Hi,

I titled the post, "a celebration of undersized fish" with not a thought of being a kill joy, or elitist. Read carefully my contribution to this debate.

I have stated clearly that fishing is about getting out in the air and having fun. At no time have I knocked anyones approach or questioned there stance on angling. What is written are my views, and what prompted me to create the post was, "do we deserve, and can we expect better then what is presently available? In my opinion the answer is yes, we do deserve better, and I say this because I have been lucky in my lifetime to have experienced a full and diverse marine environment.The most important thing is that people enjoy their fishing and that more young people join the sport. But please do not lose sight of what we all could have.

Good fishing is what rocks ones boat. I still enjoy my fishing, but I now target sea species, and have taken up coarse, pike, and fly fishing over the last fifteen years. I went down this road primarily because I experienced first hand the deterioration in sea fish stocks, but still wanted to experience what I interpret as quality angling.

I used the words "second best". This could be viewed in a negative way but that was never my intention. General sea fishing today based on my experience is second best to what I used to know. However targeted sea angling today can be just as good, it just takes a bit more thought and effort.

This thread has been great for it shows the diverse views on our sport that people have, bring it on. However, I am asking people, "to enjoy your sport but strive for better things". The return of quality Bass angling proves that the seas that I once knew can be as rich again. We as sea anglers, even if we did not experience those times have to believe this and fight for there restoration. Consider, that 4.oz Codling if left to its own devices for four years could be 4-5.lb weight and laying eggs. That is all it takes. If anything this thread shows that there are people out there that can make a difference. Strive for the big one.

Ashley you still dont seem to be able to answer the question about what if anything the fisheries board is doing to bring back the fish?? I read with more dismay last night of the breaking up of the fisheries boards and the creation of the IFI. This just seems to be another nail in the coffin for Irish angling. With the minister now having the last say in all matters we are about to head into a dictatorship where the minister is lobbied by the men with the nets and as usual he bends over and buckles and the anglers get shafted some more. When are the fisheries board going to start taking direction from people who know what theyre talking about?? They dont seem to take direction from marine bioligists worldwide, they dont take direction from anglers. It seems to be an Irish thing that we are content to let the situation get so tremendously bad before anything is done about it. Look how long it took to have drift netting for salmon abolished. The fisherman who cried cos they were supposedly catching nothing fought to the bitter end to keep netting Salmon despite the fact that they had pretty much wiped out the runs on most of our rivers. Now look at what is happening with commercial Bass fishing. The stocks no sooner start to show signs of recovery than they start talking about opening up the commercial fishery again!! I mean what are we dealing with in this country?? Where are all GOOD ideas? What is going to be done to restore our fishing? Why do we have to put up with these inferior catches and make do with second best when our waters used to and could support so much more? Why do we have to keep watching a board do nothing? I dont think its fair that you used to have superb catches while I will never experience the joy of these catches because the fish are no longer there. It breaks my heart to love fishing so much and live in a country where for the most part the fishing has gone to the dogs. Why arent we doing something about it, I mean I just dont understand the complacency of the fisheries board. We must just make do with second best. Is that all that we deserve as Irish people? Strive for the big one!! Thats a complete joke of a statement Sir. We should be striving for excellence and working towards it, not hoping for the best and trying to make the best out of a bad situation. How long are we going to continue to do nothing?

Ashley you still dont seem to be able to answer the question about what if anything the fisheries board is doing to bring back the fish?? I read with more dismay last night of the breaking up of the fisheries boards and the creation of the IFI. This just seems to be another nail in the coffin for Irish angling. With the minister now having the last say in all matters we are about to head into a dictatorship where the minister is lobbied by the men with the nets and as usual he bends over and buckles and the anglers get shafted some more. When are the fisheries board going to start taking direction from people who know what theyre talking about?? They dont seem to take direction from marine bioligists worldwide, they dont take direction from anglers. It seems to be an Irish thing that we are content to let the situation get so tremendously bad before anything is done about it. Look how long it took to have drift netting for salmon abolished. The fisherman who cried cos they were supposedly catching nothing fought to the bitter end to keep netting Salmon despite the fact that they had pretty much wiped out the runs on most of our rivers. Now look at what is happening with commercial Bass fishing. The stocks no sooner start to show signs of recovery than they start talking about opening up the commercial fishery again!! I mean what are we dealing with in this country?? Where are all GOOD ideas? What is going to be done to restore our fishing? Why do we have to put up with these inferior catches and make do with second best when our waters used to and could support so much more? Why do we have to keep watching a board do nothing? I dont think its fair that you used to have superb catches while I will never experience the joy of these catches because the fish are no longer there. It breaks my heart to love fishing so much and live in a country where for the most part the fishing has gone to the dogs. Why arent we doing something about it, I mean I just dont understand the complacency of the fisheries board. We must just make do with second best. Is that all that we deserve as Irish people? Strive for the big one!! Thats a complete joke of a statement Sir. We should be striving for excellence and working towards it, not hoping for the best and trying to make the best out of a bad situation. How long are we going to continue to do nothing?

Mike:
Ashley works for a fishery board and therefore is an employee of a minister. You don't criticise the decisions of your boss if you want to have a career.
So your post while impassioned and persuasive is addressed to the wrong person to get a result. I suggest you print it out several times, sign it, and post to your local TD, and the ministers, and shadow minister's offices.
It will be a productive way to do achieve what you want.
Ashley brought this up to bring it to our notice, but it is up to us to take the matter to his employers, who are supposed to be OUR employees.

Norm

norm,thats a very good idea and if mike does not mind then thats exactly what im going to do,and like in the shawshank,im going to do it once a week,till i see results!

you make some good points ashley but its not as simple as that. lets go to your shore list for a second,Bass,very scarce on the mayo,sligo,galway coastline,tope i know one mark where they MIGHT be caught from the shore,smoothhound,don't know any marks on the west coast,mullet,pollock,wrasse,flounder, loads of marks, in season,gilthead bream,triggerfish none from the shore,conger,bull huss,rays,fine from the shore,ling and gurnard not regulary caught from the shore on the west coast. so from your list,conger,flounder,mullet,pollock,wrasse,bull huss,and ray are caught on a regular basis,but from this ,three would be caught during the winter on the west coast,flounder conger and ray.as a full time carer on a very limited budget and with the sea at least an hour away,i cannot afford to travel far afield too often as cost would be a mitigating factor,am i supposed to stay away from the sea until i can afford to travel to the good spots to catch,"decent fish"i go fishing to get away from the stresses of being a carer 24 hours a day and will go to marks where i will catch fish,i want to catch big "decent fish"but am quiet happy to catch anything!well nearly anything! young fish go back as quickly and carefully as possible,but when that rod tip indicates a bite im never happier!and thats why i go fishing,for the relaxion and the buzz of catching a fish,and if it is a bit small,it does not take away from the pleasure of catching it.Then there is the pleasure of posting the report,pics and all,and reading the comments of friends i have been lucky to make on this site who have helped turn this angler from an adverge to an improver.In my opinion this is what this site is all about.[/quote]

I firmly agree with chris , for alot of people on this site its about sharing knowledge on fishing tactics , whats being caught and learning from that . Its getting out and wetting the line that counts people have been loosing sight of that which is more important , i or anyone else can`t be too blame for the standard of fish thats about our shores . It has changed dramaticaly since my father fished ,they where almost guarented a good haul each session , but now people have to make do with whats out there small or big , mostly small , its still a fish and i take huge pleasure from getting anything , which happens to rarely . Just as the galway man said , its about catching , realeasing , reporting and learning. All the other crap is`nt needed .