Bass being commercially exploited again!?

has anyone got any replies from there tds on this,i've emailed five tds and not recieved one reply yet,i've also written but as they only went today i will wait to see if i get any replies with the letters.

Iv sent a lot of e.mails no reply's, just confirmation of e.mails iv sent letters as well.

Has anyone thought of putting up posters in tackle shops around Ireland to try get some more light on this subject/situation ?
I don't have time to design a poster at this time but if somebody wants to do the artwork and information and send me a list of all the tackle shops in Ireland ill get them printed and posted. There is only so much you can talk about this matter on this forum!!

Lads lets try get something going here

Just a few points to aid the debate:

The commercial ban was brought in because the Irish Government understood that the value of the recreational value of a bass was far in excess of the commercial value. It still is. Indeed the Irish recreational bass fishery is booming.

The commercial view of fish is that if there is a stock to exploit lets exploit it. Hence the request to the Minister. The fact that bass are not currently a threatened species seems to be being used as a reason to exploit them. I see it as a reason not to exploit them. If the commercial fishing industry has destroyed the fish it previously depended on the answer is not to move species and fish that one out as well.

In the UK now the cod are overfished they've moved onto pollack. Funny how everyone likes to eat pollack now. While they are at it they'll move onto bass because they are not a threatened species either... etc etc.

This is the thin end of the wedge as JimH says. My letters are in the post.

if somebody wants to do the artwork

Yep - that's me. I will require bit of help in reviewing text as English is not my mother tongue - but other than that I'm happy to do the work. Please PM me if anyone want's to contribute.

Hi sandtiger.

I think I unerstand the point you're trying to make, well one of them anyway.

Let me just state a couple of interesting points though.

If the exploitation of bass was restricted to area VII then yes, maybe there wouldn't be such a big deal to worry about here. However, let's take these couple of points into consideration:

How do we know for sure that the exploitation of this stock won't have an inadvertent effect on the Irish inshore stock?
How do we know that the state of this stock is still healthy? This data is from 2007.
Irish people are being asked to make a decision about one of their invaluable natural resource's based on information from a foreign government!
If this stock is in fact still healthy, how long will it take to be exploited to an unhealthy state?
If this stock is exploited to an unhealthy state, how long will it take to recover to healthy again?
Will it ever return to a healthy state again?
If Irish people are already getting away with landing bass on fishing vessels while it is actually illegal to do so, how easy do you think it would be for them to get away with landing bass on fishing vessels while it is legal to do so in certain areas. This situation would turn a 'difficult to police fish stock' into an 'almost impossible to police fish stock'.

These are just a few things that I could think of on the matter, God knows how many more things there are that I haven't thought of.

Regards,
John D.

If Irish people are already getting away with landing Bass on fishing vessels while it is actually illegal to do so, how easy do you think it would be for them to get away with landing Bass on fishing vessels while it is legal to do so in certain areas. This situation would turn a 'difficult to police fish stock' into an 'almost impossible to police fish stock'.

John D.

These are some of the points that make some anglers arguments vulnerable, It seems most anglers have a very distorted view of how poachers actually operate, This was discussed on another thread here recently!

You're forgetting that the inshore poacher is fishing for bass already He is not even part of this equation

Opening up the fishery will not have the effect you seem to believe it will on the poacher at all! It may actually put a stop to his operations completely as poached fish demands huge prices on the black market. His customers will not pay over the odds like they do now if they can get it for less and risk free from a legal boat! The legal boats would also help police the poachers! The landing could be policed by fishery inspectors where boats will have to report landings a few hours before arriving in port where they would be meet by an inspector!

That's all the authorities will have to say to combat your points, That's what you must plan for!!

Putting up posters or sending letters as individuals is not a strong enough stance to gain any real success you guys need to bang heads and start a national body of people and businesses which will be affected! There are already a good few people on here from across a broad spectrum of interests who would be perfect to start the ball rolling! Inviting the TDs to a meeting of several hundred people or more will get their attention more than any amount of letters

And get as much factual information as possible to help your cause because believe me the commercial reps will!

Hi sandtiger.

I think I unerstand the point you're trying to make, well one of them anyway.

Let me just state a couple of interesting points though.

If the exploitation of Bass was restricted to area VII then yes, maybe there wouldn't be such a big deal to worry about here. However, let's take these couple of points into consideration:

How do we know for sure that the exploitation of this stock won't have an inadvertent effect on the Irish inshore stock?

You don't, because there has been no effective measuring of stocks since the closure in 1990. So equally, why do you presume the sustainable harvesting of area VII will have a negative impact, given that your commercial brothers are proposing taking Bass some 50km off the SE ROI coast?

How do we know that the state of this stock is still healthy? This data is from 2007.

I would suggest that this renders good data compared to other stock analysis reports. However, I had provided more recent data, which you have ignored.

Irish people are being asked to make a decision about one of their invaluable natural resource's based on information from a foreign government!

In relation to that foreign Government's waters, and allowing your commercial fisherman to no longer discard in those waters, so your point is?

If this stock is in fact still healthy, how long will it take to be exploited to an unhealthy state?

I lack a crystal ball, but a proper managed fisheries would assist in throwing up those indicators, that concern you.

If this stock is exploited to an unhealthy state, how long will it take to recover to healthy again?
Will it ever return to a healthy state again?

That all depends on your definitions.

If Irish people are already getting away with landing Bass on fishing vessels while it is actually illegal to do so, how easy do you think it would be for them to get away with landing Bass on fishing vessels while it is legal to do so in certain areas. This situation would turn a 'difficult to police fish stock' into an 'almost impossible to police fish stock'.

Not with the traceability schemes that were introduced to ROI in 2007. As a Sea Angling charter boat skipper I can't help wondering why some anglers have to take an automatic knee jerk reaction against the many honest and hard working commercial fishermen that are equally hampered by the acts of blackfish scoundrels (be they commercials or 'anglers' throwing salmon/bass nets).

Lets be honest here; you want to preserve your hobby at all costs, over other peoples livelihoods, despite any scientific data?

These are just a few things that I could think of on the matter, God knows how many more things there are that I haven't thought of.

Probably hundreds, but would they be valid?

I think your replies confirm you are in a dreamworld Sandtiger

none so blind that cannot see

I think your replies confirm you are in a dreamworld Sandtiger

none so blind that cannot see

All the best with your petition matey

I think your replies confirm you are in a dreamworld Sandtiger

none so blind that cannot see

Oh that's a really helpful statement!

I think you may well be on a different planet reading that

Tiggs is probably the most in touch with reality on this thread, you may not like what he is saying but unfortunately for you all what he is saying is true! If statements like yours are the best argument that anglers have to put to the table then make way for the commercials! The commercials will have their homework done and done well and will have all the facts and figures to back up their side They will also have their share of public reps on side!

I am seeing no facts n figures here at all and that's what you're going to need!

"You cant open the bass fishery because we love bass fishing and I'm telling ya that bass angling is worth a fortune more than commercial fishing" just wont wash without the facts n figures to back up the anglers side

Right,
here's a little story from a fishing trip yesterday where i encountered a local netsman emptying his nets.From his point of view he can't see all the fuss about reopening the bass fishery,in his words they are in plaque proportions these days .Also the few that he would take in his mile long net would be minimal compared to the bigger boats offshore.
His catch for yesterday was 3 boxes of prime inshore cod ,5 boxes of doggies[which he could'nt sell,but could the day before],the dogs were all discarded back on the beach nearly dead.
I asked him about the bass in the area,he told me tonnes of them but not big say 2 or 3lb,and if he had the proper nets he would catch 4 or 5 boxes per haul,how i asked would that not affect stocks i asked him ,his reply was sure there everywhere.Proceeded to explain the biology of the bass and the damage that his nets would do in a short period of time never mind the one's offshore,he proceeded to tell me he never tells a bass to swim into his nets but if one those he will never throw it back,at this stage thought to myself "shutup you lan..r"
Oh ya by the way he has a date with the law next week and is he bothered about the few bass he was caught with in his house before xmas NOT AT ALL,sure it will only be a slap on the wrist.Almost forgot if this is the attitude of the inshore guys now they must be rubbing their grubby hands with delight at the thought of been able to fly under the umbrella of their bigger brothers.To say that reopening would stop this guy from netting due to fall in value of bass sale values,GIVE ME A BREAK.
IF THIS GOES AHEAD I FOR ONE WILL HAVE PLENTY OF TIME TO TAKE UP GOLF AND SELL A FEW TASTY RODS AND REELS.

Mohawk,
i'm just curious with regards to what side of the fence your sitting on in general when it comes to bass.Are you for the reopening of the commercial fishery or against it,just curious is all.

Mohawk,
i'm just curious with regards to what side of the fence your sitting on in general when it comes to Bass.Are you for the reopening of the commercial fishery or against it,just curious is all.

Read my posts and I mean read them because that seems to be the problem here nobody is reading or taking in anything it's just all outbursts of emotions that are going nowhere. Without facts n figures it's all going nowhere

You may be confused because I'm not posting useless information

Just wondering something here,yes i may be confused are'nt we all and yes i'm emotional i always am .I could be mistaken here,but do you think my post is useless .Maybe it does'nt contain all the facts and figures that you keep refering to ,but it was never meant to .The post is just an insight into the point of view of an individual who nets inshore to make a living,they are his words not mine and if thats the way he thinks than you can bet your life that he is not alone within the angling community.
Yes the topic is way off the original one and i apologise for that and i'm not going to be airing anymore of my dirty laundry in public as im getting sick of it and i'm sure so are others.
At the end of the day its bass protection for future generations thats at risk not the quick lining with silver of some peoples trousers,and i don't have loads of facts and figures,just 30 odd years of bass fishing on my local shores.

Mohawk,

I take the points you make.

The commercials have no information as there is no commercial bass fishery. They are quoting the 2007 figures that have been discussed on here already so I suggest its just mischief making as usual. Nevertheless they have stirred up the hornets nest so they should get stung big time - the trick is how to do this - yes?

The only reliable bass information on lifestyle and stock is collated together by UKBASS so I suggest you get onto them for it. Then getOFF line (so commercial and pseudo commercials cannot get a heads up) and put all the facts together and present to the Minister with all the emotion you can. Commercials use all the emotion they can muster so should we.

Just my suggestion.

Mohawk,

I take the points you make.

The commercials have no information as there is no commercial Bass fishery. They are quoting the 2007 figures that have been discussed on here already so I suggest its just mischief making as usual. Nevertheless they have stirred up the hornets nest so they should get stung big time - the trick is how to do this - yes?

The only reliable Bass information on lifestyle and stock is collated together by UKBASS so I suggest you get onto them for it. Then getOFF line (so commercial and pseudo commercials cannot get a heads up) and put all the facts together and present to the Minister with all the emotion you can. Commercials use all the emotion they can muster so should we.

Just my suggestion.

I am totally surprised at the lack of common since here Tiggs who I would describe as a gift horse to anyone serious about making any sort of proper argument with the advice he is giving you on here but none of you can see far enough through emotions to see it. His is very good advice! Tiggs has nothing to gain or loose from it.. Just as I have nothing to loose or gain really from the bass fishery, But it's laughable that you guys are not even considering getting properly organised. You are very stupid if you actually believe that the commercial sector have no information! The commercial sector have the likes of BIM firmly behind them who do the anglers have?? Funny how you reffered to UKBASS where are IRELANDBASS

You are suggesting that I contact people for information.. The point is I am not one of the people getting emotional over Bass so I have no need for information but if I were I would have my homework done on the other hand if those who are want to mount any serious challange to it I suggest you do your homework and do it well otherwise all this talk amounts to nothing. We can all rabbit on here about bass forever more but it will not do any good, You need to get organized on a large scale nationally. You need to get facts & figures therefore proper research then present your finding to the minister. You can't simply make statements like recrecational bass angling is worth more than commercial fishing because without being able to quote figures it doesn't wash with a minister!

Just wondering something here,yes i may be confused are'nt we all and yes i'm emotional i always am .I could be mistaken here,but do you think my post is useless .Maybe it does'nt contain all the facts and figures that you keep refering to ,but it was never meant to .The post is just an insight into the point of view of an individual who nets inshore to make a living,they are his words not mine and if thats the way he thinks than you can bet your life that he is not alone within the angling community.
Yes the topic is way off the original one and i apologise for that and i'm not going to be airing anymore of my dirty laundry in public as im getting sick of it and i'm sure so are others.
At the end of the day its Bass protection for future generations thats at risk not the quick lining with silver of some peoples trousers,and i don't have loads of facts and figures,just 30 odd years of Bass fishing on my local shores.

Yes but are bass anglers like you who are passionate about this subject and you're not alone by no means just going to sit on here and complain or are you going to stand up and do something about it

You need to get organized on a large scale nationally.

Yeah right. This will not happen overnight. And at the moment (unfortunately) we are in the firefighting situation. And although I accept the fact that epetitions, emails and posters will have very little impact - these are some actions at least. In the current situation suggesting "let's organize on national scale" is not doable. The best idea so far was to setup a meeting with this Dan Boyle person, but unless something is going on behind the scenes via PMs - none of charter skippers or fishing guides or other stakeholders, committed to take part, so far.

So please do suggest actions that are possible to take in current situation.

Somebody needs to volunteer to take charge of this. I can't as I just have too much work on at the moment. As Tommy said where are the bass guides in all of this? More than anybody their livelyhoods depend on a healthy bass population. They can't be over worked at this time of year.

What is happening with Irishbass.org ??

At the beginning of this thread a bunch of us offered to contribute € 50 each towards some sort of campaign. Then the thread diverged off into a argument about the merits od ePetitions, emailing and letter posting. That is a contribution each of us can make with the mimimum of effort. It may not have a major effect but it is better than nothing.

It is stupid to think that this proposal will not have a devestating impact on the inshore bass population. It will open the flood gates for illegally netted bass.

It has been mentioned in this thread that the 51 30' N limit is approximately 50 km off shore - that is giving a false impression, it may be approx 50 km south of Youghal but is only about 12 km south of the Old Head of Kinsale and just over 3 km south of Galley Head. So unless I am mistaken the FIF's proposal calls for commercial bass fishing to the south of 51 30' will be only a few kms off the South Cork coastline, well within the range of any small trawler/in shore fishing boat.

So as I said at the beginning somebody with the time and knowledge (neither of which I have) needs to step foreward and take leadership of this to try to get something done.

Tommy where there's a will there's a way

Possibly the reason no one committed is because there was nothing to commit to!

Someone needs to propose something and I'm sure you'll find people willing and able here