Snood lines for ray

Donagh am I right in saying you are using 80lb for the hook lengths for ray too? Isn't that a bit of overkill?

I didn't want to hijack the fluoro thread so started a new topic. Yes it is overkill for rays most of the time but they will often swallow a hook and large ray put under real pressure constantly trying to dive into mixed ground can break the snood. Theres also a good possiblity of huss and conger so many angler fishing the Estuary will use a bite trace a few inchs long. This also helps deal with the larger ray.

What it also does is cuts down on the amount of dogfish you catch and picks out the better fish. This has been proven to me time and again fishing shoulder to shoulder casting at the same distance. For competitions, cleaner ground or just to get bites I'll shift down to 30lbs on my pulleys or lighter on paternosters. I landed my best huss and ray last year 30lbs but lost a better ray and a better huss on 80lb. It all depends on where they get hooked.

Donagh

generaly 30lb pound amnesia does for the ray fishing with appropiate hook sizes ive managed double figure fish. on rough ground i go for 50lb pulleys, because using a flowing trace here would be asking for trouble. . .. .saying all this a few weeks ago i landed a 4lb ray on 15lb amnesia and #2 match hooks from 160yrds so you never know!

Years ago, we used fish interclubs against the Shannon club in the estuary. The locals laughed at my coming down from Dublin with my 30lb snoods and I likewise laughed at them.

However, on Glin , I lost the only fish hooked in my zone, obviously a large fish, with the snood bitten through. The following year, the same happened to me at Foynes on a 50lb snood.

I doubt that either fish was a ray but I can see Donagh's point in opting for the heavier snood.

Its an interesting one...most of my ray are taken from cleaner ground and I've gone down to 20lb without any problems. I guess if the ray run quite large then it may be the right to go...I would just be wondering, based on the same principles of lights snoods for general beach fishing, would you not get less bites on 80lb snoods than say on 25lb or 30lb :?:

I haven't fished the Shannon much...so don't be thinking I'm questioning your expertise Donagh :wink:

Question my expertise all you like as Its not up to much and I'm only to willing to learn. It was Cooke on the forum who pointed my towards using heavier snood and after losing a few fish it has driven towards it. There is nothing worse than losing a big fish when its nearly landed. Huss over 4lbs seem seem to nail the top hook of a penel which puts the nylon right in the scissors and even at that size can easily cut through nylon. One of the shannon members told me he lost a tope in glin in a competition and one of the limerick competitions in labasheeda a rod went up the river so I might try a metal bite trace this summer in hope.

My feeling is the heavier snood doesn't put off the ray and yes it does give a definate down turn in the number of dogs caught but that will leave your bait in the water longer to get a ray. This is from my own experience but I've seen Henry Gilbey say the same thing for what its worth. I've seen this to my cost in competitions and for comps I'll use 30lb snoods to get any sort of fish or lighter on paternosters if the ground permits. Flats and round fish don't normal get caught to size to count.

Donagh

i have been fishing the shannon estuary for 15yrs, ive never had trouble with 25lb or 30lb snoods and have never used anything stronger, and i have landed ray to 12lb and huss to 14lb. fair enough i have had only one experience in 15yrs where my snood was bitten off by a tope, so next cast was with a wire trace and this resulted in a estimated 40lb tope, which was tailed by Estuary Lad. id rather be catching fish (dogfish) all day than sitting around waithing for ray and huss.

Just to clarify I don't mind catching dogs but I'd rather catch ray and if dogs are shoaling you'll still hit a few and have better chance at ray. Another reason I use heavy snoods on pulleys is I clip them down to the lead. I do still use lighter snoods on pulleys with clips. The fact that I'm having bite offs maybe due to weakness in my ability to bring fish in. I don't no ones ever said how I've screwed up.

Donagh

Another reason I use heavy snoods on pulleys is I clip them down to the lead

dont understand why you have to use such heavy line because your clipping down. nearly all the pullys ive seen in use by anglers are always clipped down so you have lost me on that, why do you think you have to use heavy mono for your snood when clipping down. i know people use stronger line (70lb/80lb) for the main body on pullys because of the increased pressure on the line when casting

Just to add another thought, I dont hold much for the fact that the rod beside you is catching more, I almost always use two rods and often with the same setup. The number of times that one rod has outfished the other by more than 2-1 is a lot more common than you would expect.

Iv fished the estuary for a long time and find that if you bring the fish in gradually using lighter snoods you have a good chance of landing them on shore but if you use brute force the friction is much more powerful which in turn ends up fraying the line.
I let the rod do most of the hard work instead of bullin the fish in it takes a while to get this technique but it works.

I usually fish ray over clean ground using the pulley pennal rig but would never think of using anything lighter than 50lb more times than enough after inspecting the trace after a couple of fish being landed its time to change the trace the lines always frayed! Using lighter line for the snood is just asking for trouble if that fish swallows your bait your line is really gona be put to the test and probley result in losing the fish with the hooks left in it :( I cant see the breaking strain of line were it b 50lb or even wire putting the fish off. Ray arent that fussy! a side of mackeral or a whole camaria squid pumped full of oil u think the fish is gona notice your line? and over rough ground if i knew there was the possibility of tope or conger the wire would be straight on just imagine how sick ud be if u hooked into some thing like that and it broke free

dont understand why you have to use such heavy line because your clipping down. nearly all the pullys ive seen in use by anglers are always clipped down so you have lost me on that, why do you think you have to use heavy mono for your snood when clipping down. i know people use stronger line (70lb/80lb) for the main body on pullys because of the increased pressure on the line when casting

If you clip down to the lead where the snood is shorter than your main body it will take the same strain as the main body. This was said to me by Steve Gillet and kept to it. For lighter snoods I use a mushroom or other clip and set it up to have the main rig body take the strain and protect the knot with a rubber bead. I do use lighter snoods but due to ease of access and limted time most of my ray are caught one mark in the estuary where I found the heavy nylon doesn't put the ray off. Maybe I'm wrong with using heavy snoods and big hooks but its what I have confidence in.

Neilus I thought I saw you using a metal trace on your running ledgers in Glin. I probably do put to much strain on fish but on mixed ground It does avoid fish going to ground. It's petty we never catch any fish when we're out for you to tutor me.

Donagh

I'm not taking any sides here...you do what your happiest with.

For me 3 points made here are different to my logic on this matter.

1/ 80lb line for a pulley rig....with modern line being so thin in diameter now I think its good enough straight through...on a clipped down pulley rig for casting IMHO a knot only weakens the rig. I would much prefer a limpish 80lb line to a stiff brittle 40lb line any day.

2/ I personally think Doggies, Rays, Cod and a few more species aren't put off by the line being a tad thicker...most of them are "hit and run" feeders anyways. Doggies and Ray will try to hold onto the bottom, meaning the line will come into contact between the fish and the ocean floor anyways, extra thickness will help you out more often than not IMO.

3/ Playing fish in...IMHO I try to bully them in as quick as possible, within reason...I think you get a feel for when your going to far to quick with a good fish on the end....this is only my view, but I would sooner loss a fish because I was hitting him hard instead of playing with him for to long, I think the longer he is in the water there is more to go wrong...snags etc.

btw....I never use flouro, I think its a waste of money, I know many who have tested the stuff on a professional level and not come up with enough evidence that it catches more fish..apart from that I have not tried a one that I think is even a good quality line regarding knot strength etc.

Tom.