Rod setups & building your own rods.

I'm in the market for a new rod. Isn't everybody....
i would like some views on an idea I've been playing with.

Instead of buying a finished rod, i was thinking of buying a blank and just taping on the rings(glue on the eye ring) and using a Fuji reel seat. this way I would have a rod that if i decided later i could switch between fixed and multiplier, simple to fixes rings, also allow me to play with spacings.(something I'm keen to try).

Is it difficult to find the spine, and is there reasons not to do this that maybe I'm missing.
Basically when i spend the guts of 300 sterling on a rod and bits I would like something i can do a bit of experimenting with as its not like i can afford another if i get it badly wrong.

Leaving a final decision on the rod till i go to the show on Friday.
caught between about 7 diff rent rods now so nearly there.

tape the rings on with the fancy gift wrap sellotape the metallic finidh one its alot stronger . to find the spine place the tip of the rob into the palm of the hand and roll the tip with a bit of pressure back and forth you should feel a slight jump from the tip this is the spine

Forgive my ignorance here lads but that's the first time I've heard that term. What is the spine. :?:

you have the other option in the likes of the greys triplex, it is rung for fixed spool or multiplier and comes with a sliding / locking reelseat.i think there could be a few rods on the market like that?? it works a treat for me anyhow and i use both on it.

The spine of a rod is the natural bending point. It depends on how the sheet of carbon fiber is rolled on the mandrel during prep.. Basically there is an overlapping of the carbon which causes the rod to flex more along a single point.

A very simple way of finding the spine of a rod blank is to place the tip on something soft on the floor (cushion or carpet). Lay the upper end of the rod section in your right palm. hold the rod at 45 degrees. With your left hand in the middle of the section, put a nice bend into the blank section. Roll the blank. You will feel the blank jump into one position. Mark the middle and you have found the spine. The butt sections of rods are very difficult to spine and to be truthful are less important. The spine can be found with spine rollers and such. Just make you the over all spine does not adjust with the butt section attached and you'll be fine.

You can tape eyes on to test and get a feel for the rod but if you want to test it under load I have a nice tip. Let me know and I'll post it.

Great craic rod building. It's amazing how closely you look at a rod after you've built one.

Kev

The spine of a rod is the natural bending point. It depends on how the sheet of carbon fiber is rolled on the mandrel during prep.. Basically there is an overlapping of the carbon which causes the rod to flex more along a single point.

A very simple way of finding the spine of a rod blank is to place the tip on something soft on the floor (cushion or carpet). Lay the upper end of the rod section in your right palm. hold the rod at 45 degrees. With your left hand in the middle of the section, put a nice bend into the blank section. Roll the blank. You will feel the blank jump into one position. Mark the middle and you have found the spine. The butt sections of rods are very difficult to spine and to be truthful are less important. The spine can be found with spine rollers and such. Just make you the over all spine does not adjust with the butt section attached and you'll be fine.

You can tape eyes on to test and get a feel for the rod but if you want to test it under load I have a nice tip. Let me know and I'll post it.

Great craic rod building. It's amazing how closely you look at a rod after you've built one.

Kev

MAC

Post away.............for gods sake post..


by the way thanks for the info lads.

It should also be mentioned that for fixed spool ringing the eyes should be placed on inside of the spine whereas for multiplier use they should go on the outside of it.

Marty

Some good blank offers on ebay at present from the zziplex stable. Might be worth a look if you looking to spend some real money. If you look after it or don't like the way it's working you can sell it on for probably nearly as much as you paid for it.

Only a suggestion :lol:

It should also be mentioned that for fixed spool ringing the eyes should be placed on inside of the spine whereas for multiplier use they should go on the outside of it.

You could debate this one... From my experience building and reading about rod building the spine becomes much more critical in lighter rods such as fly rods for freshwater use etc. It's not as big an issue with beachcasters and the like, that said, it doesn't pay to ignore it either.

The rings should be placed either along the line of the spine or on the opposite side of the blank to the spine (180'). They should not be placed off these two "lines" as it will cause the rod to naturally twist when casting.

Depending on the action you require from the rod (irrespective of fixed spool or multiplier) place the rings on the line of the spine if you want the rod to cast/load more easily or if the blank is a bit soft place them on the opposite side to the spine to stiffen up the casting action. That's the theory anyway... I think :-)

Finding the spine on the butt section of a beachcaster is almost impossible with the "roll in the hand" technique. Find the spine on the tip section (far more critical anyways) put the rod together and ensure it still feels right, that's about as much as you can do.

Another note to be aware of is watch the whippings on the tip section - overlong whippings may affect the action of the blank (again on big beachcasters this may be a trivial point). Overlong whippings don't allow the rod to bend as much/correctly where the whippings are in place therefore stiffening up the blank.

Liam

After 20yrs of building all types of sea, fresh water and tournament rods I`ll Agree to disagree on that Liam. In my experience if you try to put the spine on the outside of a built rod it will still try to twist to its natural place - on the inside of the blank when loaded, thats why it settles in one place when you roll it in you hand.

Marty

Marty- Liamo :)

Your both right...the only thing I would add...IMHO I would never mention to spine the rod for casting. The guy who would benefit from that on a tournament rod would know what he's doing anyways.

A tournament rod is never under any stress on the retrieve, where as a fishing rod is, that said, it is right IMO to spine the rod for fishing, not casting. Your casting style can cause a rod tip to twist in some cases, if your winding in a fish on a rod badly spined, its a nightmare.

Ditto on " Long Whippings" keep them as short as you can near the tip, I put my thread about 1/4" past the toe of the guides nearer the tip end and only about 1/2" to 3/4" nearer the spigot. And "under-whip" IMO should never be needed on a surf casting rod.

BTW.....some blanks have more than one spine...that's when you go by the most dominant spine, that can be a bit tricky to find sometimes :)

Tom.

Marty- Liamo :)

BTW.....some blanks have more than one spine...that's when you go by the most dominant spine, that can be a bit tricky to find sometimes :)

Tom.

Heh I wasnt going to mention that one Tom, as you say it can be a right pain at times thought its a while now since I felt a blank like that.

Its also worth noteing that using production rods as an example is not a good idea either, alot of the time they are not done right. Most blanks have a very slight natural cure to them that will be accentuated with the weight of rings on it (doesnt look right to the customer that doesnt know) so they tend to build on the other side and use the weight of the rings to make it look "perfect"

Marty

My goodness, there's alot to this rod building lark :shock: :roll: :lol:

After 20yrs of building all types of sea, fresh water and tournament rods I`ll Agree to disagree on that Liam. In my experience if you try to put the spine on the outside of a built rod it will still try to twist to its natural place - on the inside of the blank when loaded, thats why it settles in one place when you roll it in you hand.

Marty,

I am confused and interested so I'm gonna pick u up on that last one! I love this stuff... Do you mean so that the rings should always be on the inside along the "line" of the spine. It's your earlier comment that is confusing me here...

It should also be mentioned that for fixed spool ringing the eyes should be placed on inside of the spine whereas for multiplier use they should go on the outside of it.

Wouldn't that cause all your multiplier rods to twist?

Liam

Sorry I can see how it could be a bit confusing with my wording, to clarify Laim when I ring a multiplier rod I put the rings on the opposite side (180 deg) to the spine (as they are on top of the rod using a multiplier) then when winding in the spine is on the inside of the loaded rod in its natural position, for fixed spool I put them directly on the spine so as they are on the inside of the loaded rod with the spine (natural position again)

Hope that helps clear it up.

Marty

Guys,

Can I tell you what I was told and again it does not contradict either of you in what your saying.

Once you have found the spine, put the guides either on the spine side or at 180 to the spine side, either way the rod will not twist in use. On a modern beachcaster (good to middle quality) you wont see any difference.

When you find the spine using the flat palm and roll method at 45 degrees to the floor, what you have on the inside of the bend is the soft side. Only on a very specialist bag game rod, built to lift very heavy fish would you ever need to have the stronger stiffer side of the spine on top, and even then its debatable.

My personal preference and its never let me down, I find the spine and class that as the top (facing to the sky) and for multiplier thats where I put the guides and for a fixed spool I put them at 180to the spine(facing the ocean on the bottom)

Tom.

As you mention guys there seems to be two thoughts on ring placement and this is the topic is debated in the rod building community all over the web and in publised books. As Marty and Tom mentioned the thing to do is put the rings on or exactly opposite to the spine to avoid rod twist. I'm very new to rod building and there is a lot to it. It's a really enjoyable hobby though. At the moment I am only building fly rods but I might progress to a Beach caster sometime in the future.

The tip I have for load testing happens after you've found the spine and epoxied on the tip top eye. You then tape the eyes on the rod at the suggested distances. Tie a piece of string or 50lb mono to the tip top eye. Tie the opposite end of the string to something heavy. Run some 50lb coloured mono or light string through the eyes of the rod out the tip top. Tie this to something light.... like an empty beer can. The can will be hanging while you are testing the rod so you will be able to see how the mono runs through the eyes and how the eyes take the pressure load at different stages of the flex of the rod.

Ok..... holding the rod at about 60 degrees lift into the heavy object until there is a nice bend in the tip. If you can secure the rod for a closer look even better. The epoxied tip top will be fine for the bend and the coloured mono will show you how the top eyes are helping with the load. Adjust the eyes as necessary.

Now put a more severe bend in the rod loading it all the way to the mid section..... You can have a look at the eyes and adjust.

Now put a heavy bend in the rod and do a final adjustment on the bottom eye/s.......

You should have a perfectly eyed rod......

This kind of measurement can be more critical on light trout rods that are frequently fully loaded on cast or with a light fish during the fight.

I could also see how the distance caster would be interested in fine tuning his rod to this level.

Cracking thread this........

Kev

Mac,

What annoys me is the so called professional rod builders who talk of rod building as if it were a science, its not!, a few easy tips and lessons mixed with a few easy to find tools and your building your first rod.

I agree rod building is always a good topic on a forum like this, perhaps the moderators would think it a good idea to have a rod building Q&A forum on this site.

To anyone wanting to build their own rod, I would say...the pleasure you get from using a rod built by your own hands is great. You first rod may not be perfect, but your second will be better and your third better still. As you work you will hit snags, someone will tell you how or what has caused the snag and what the cure is, pretty soon you'll be building rods good enough to sell out of any tackle shop.

Tom.

I would follow a fairly sim method for ringing a rod myself Kev, as you say get the top ring on in the relevant position to the spine and load it up under various pressures to set the guides making sure the line folows the action of the rod smoothly. Your also so right Tom there is no science to it, I think alot of builders try to blind potential customers with info so they can charge a load of extra money

Now the next debate will start about how many rings and what size to put on a fixed spool/multiplier rod :D :D I have my own opions on that not being a fan of the very few big rings approach for fixed spools, at the end of the day every rod is diff and requires what suits it.

For anyone interested the fuji "new guide concept" can be a decent starting point, have a look here. Funny how things go full circle.

http://www.harrisonrods.co.uk/Fuji%20Ne ... oncept.htm

It makes for a good starting point if your not too familiar with building rods/spacing rings.

Happy building,

Marty