Trace Line Damage?

Is it safe to whack a trace you personally have made a long way with a distance casting technique?

Has anyone had instances of crimps being on too tight and damaging the line resulting in Snap offs down the trace?

Don't get me wrong, I've got 100% confidence in my traces/Knots/Leader, etc etc But is this a big issue?

100% with you on this bone of contension K2. :) I think it is really down to common sense when making up traces, ie, don't crimp it too tight etc. :oops: Does anyone use telephone wire or power gum? Both of these have a good write up in the mags and are supposed to be easy to get on with :wink:

My rule for making traces for trapped beads using crimps is to crimp them enough that then don't slip but enough that they will move if you apply a little pressure. That way you know you have not damged your line and also it allows you to slightly alter things when you use traces with cascade swivels and impact leads. :lol:

[scara]

I agree with Robert here also a i would tend to keep distance rigs as simple as possable for two reasons.
1. strength, lightly crimped and only two knots on the main trace line, one to the leader swivel and one to the lead clip.

2. aero dymnamic thingy.....so they don't flap around. well cliped in.

Last edited by scara on Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

K2,

I'm not sure if I'm picking your question up right, but this is what I will throw into the pot.

Leader knot to main line, leader to rig body and rig body to lead, first a crimp should never be used on these 3 points IMO, you don't need it, a good well tested knot is the only way to go IMO Use a clip, swivel or link in the leader or body line but always with a knot.

Crimp the bead stops to the body as much as you need to but on the slack side, if they do move and your not happy, then a little more pressure is easy to add. If it were me (I no longer use crimps) I'd always like to be able to slide a crimp with a little pressure. The goodness of the method comes in on a big fish over snaggy ground.....crimp slides down.....lead goes in line and off the bottom giving less to get snagged up with.

Tom.

Good advice all, one question though - where is Rochhopper getting big fish from? :mrgreen:

And would he take B0ogaloo and see if he can get him one? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Lee

I would really not recommend using a knot in the line for any kind of casting. Maybe if you are plonking baits in rough ground you might get away with it but for standard beach casting it would be a incredibly dangerous thing to do.

By tying a knot in the main line or trace line even if its a figure eight knot which would exert least pressure as far as knots go then you are actually reducing the breaking strain by 50%. Crimps are proven when done correctly to only reduce the breaking strain by 5%.

I understand the problem when fishing rough ground of crimps sliding and personally I use fixed paternosters myself, however once I am putting any kind of pressure into a cast its always crimps :lol:

Robert,

Do you think I am mental :lol: :lol: :lol: or what!

OK the idiot proof version.......main line knot leader.....leader to swivel or link, with knot.....swivel to top of trace body, with knot......bottom of trace body to clip or link, with knot......link or clip to lead :lol: Happy now 8)


Tom. :)

The little difference you overlooked is a knot at a swivel or link etc is not pulling against each other as would and does a knot on the main line, again another thing tested at factory level. Thats the main reason for using links etc to cut out friction caused by line on line. So I still don't understand where do you attach your snood based on the breakdown above?

on some rigs for distance i use crimps , just tight enough that they stay in place, the one thing with a clipped rig is the problem if you have a fish deep hooked and you have to cut the line and retie a new hook on, it will not line up with your clips properly again, this is where using powergum stops comes in handy, you just move them all again to suit!

Robert,

You sound like a boat angler, either that are you having me on :shock:

The snood goes onto a swivel, the trace body goes through the swivel, the swivel is kept in place by a bead, the bead is kept in place by either a knot in the trace body, a piece of silicon sleeve, or a crimp.

If your genuine and dont understand, please ask away :)

Tom.

Thanks I did not realise what you meant, so you are still putting a knot in the main body of the trace which is what I originally said and disagree with for safety reasons. Well everyone to their own.

Robert,

The knot attaches the swivel to the trace body and then another one at the clip or the lead.....anyone who uses crimps instead is taking a greater risk.....they are the only 2 knots in the trace body, one at the top and one at the bottom....NONE in the middle.

How would you attach a trace body to your lead and your main line, in fact tell me how you would make a trace? not with crimps I hope :roll:

Tom.

Well Like I explained above if and when I use crimps I barely crimp them at the start of a trace to allow them to slide or adjust where necessary.

My initial understanding of your trace building was a swivel using a standard knot to attach it too, another knot in the trace body, a bead a swivel a bead and then another knot to trap the beads and finally a knot attaching a link for the lead. But as you clarified you don't place knots in the main body.

When a knot is done to a swivel or link it reduces abrasion of line on line and would reduce the overall strength of the line by approx 15%. If there is a knot in a line which is a granny not or other type of knot it is the classes as "line on line" and the abrasion is increased by approx 50%. So basically a knot in the line without sufficent barriers of a swivel or link etc would reduce the breaking strain by half.

I have been distance casting with guys for a number of years and have seen the effects of guys tying traces with kinks or knots within the trace body and the do snap under pressure. Even power gum damages line. The way to avoid damaging the line is as I said to place crimps and all components at the top of the trace body and crimp them softly and then pull them down to thier correct positions, then cut the piece of line you used to get the crimp them off.

A trip to Stren UK a few years back proved invaluable in proven these methods to be safest out of everything. Anyways thats my opinion, like I said everyone to thier own. I just put safety a the top of my list especially when fishing matches next to a lot of other Anglers.

[IDPearl]

In reading this thread, firstly I would like to congratulate Robert for not losing his composure so far. Secondly, both knots and crimps reduce the breaking strain of the line, but the extent to which this happens depends on the force applied to each and every knot or crimp.

It is, in my view, impossible to determine at which point a rig made up of a certain breaking strain will break. You could have 2 rigs made up in a similar fashion, both with crimps and one will break before the other when load is applied - purely because the pressure applied would be different.

It is true that a knot tied into the body of the rig - ie between the two ends of the rig - will reduce the breaking strain of the rig. If you want to make a rotten bottom in the rig, you can do so by tying a couple of knots in the line before the weight. Whether your main line breaks first or the rotten bottom depends on the breaking strain of your main line.

Err on the side of caution. Tie safe knots top & bottom of the rig, don't crimp too tight for the trace attachment points or use rig tubing instead.

Last edited by IDPearl on Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

The old fashioned blood loop will destroy knot mainline strength. I bought the mustad crimping pliers a few months back which should mean I don't over or under crimp. I haven't had the main trace line break on me yet or snoods slip but I'll see how it goes over the coming season.

Donagh

Robert,

I have been making rigs for almost 40 years, almost everyone I have ever fished with, top internationals and very well known names in the angling world, including some line manufacturers and they all agree a good knot for attaching links or swivels is far, far superior to a crimp.

If I seen you standing next to me on the shore and I seen that your main line was joined to a swivel with a crimp, or the link holding your lead was held by a crimp, I would give you a very wide berth.

I don't know an angler who would crimp his main line to a swivel, but I do know this for a 100% fact, attend any UKSF tournament and try to go cast with your lead sinker crimped on and they'd stop you from casting.

Not meaning to be offensive to you, but you have either got my meaning wrong or you don't know what your talking about, sorry, that's the only conclusion I can make of what I am reading here.

Tom.

Having no interest to resorting to insults I do believe there is mis-communication here on both parts. I do not use crimps on my main line just my trace line for trapping beads.

I would be interested to understand with your technique how would you go about making a two or three hook trace?

by the looks of things both of you both know exactly what you are doing with your traces and knots and crimps etc.....just seems to be a misunderstanding somewhere along the line!......never mind a knot or a crimp!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

If you want to use crimps on the trace body to trap beads etc. and are worried about reducing the breking strain simply step up the BS of the trace body or use power gum or a bit of 20lb mono uni knotted on in the same fashion. Thats worked for me and my mates for years and we all tournament cast. Job done.

Marty