Avoiding deep-hooked fish

A topic that could just as easy go in the conservation forum, but here goes.

Anyone got any tips on avoiding deep hooked fish, especially flatfish?

I'm getting too many that have hogged the whole bait and are a pig to get unhooked. I'll be flattening barbs from here on and carrying my pair of forceps - probably better than leaving a hook in if avoidable..

Had two flatties at the weekend that had not only gulped the whole bait but had worked their way up the first few beads of my bling until they hit a flounder spoon...

Hi Sandman

Have you tried using circle hooks ?
Works for me


Andy

No, haven't tried the circles. I'll give it a go alright but for whatever reason the flattie bites you get here are virtually undetectable - one or two little taps and then they lie still. Bad enough on a flat calm day, totally impossible to spot when there is any surf/wind.

The reason I haven't tried circle hooks is that these (far as I know) need to be struck on a bite to get the hook to turn in the fish's mouth, or will a flattie set the hook against the weight of the grip lead alone?

Anyone got any thoughts on the effectiveness of barbless or debarbed hooks for flattie fishing?

The whole idea of a true circle hook is so that the fish can hook itself, that why you should never strike a fish with a circle. The theory being that if the fish takes the bait deep and swims off, the circle will travel back up and hook onto the jaw or lip.

I said "True Circle Hook" any hook that is off-set is not a true circle hook, it defeats the purpose. That's why the long-liners use circle hook in the first place, so that hooked fish stay alive and fresh longer.

Flounder are not so easy to use the circle theory on though, they gulp a bait first hit and then settle down before they take off and give you that second knock.

I'm not saying this to you in the wrong way, please don't think I am, but if anyone thinks they can go fishing without killing a fish now and then, they are wrong. The fact that it concerns you and you try not to is enough to say your the right kind of angler.

Sandman,

Your last post crossed with mine, what I do if I think there are Flatties about is move my bait, it helps you pick up the second one sometimes but will let you see if there is any weight pulling back.

Tom.

Thanks Tom, Andy.

The circles might be the job. Worth a try, at any rate. I'm using a Kamasan B940 at the moment in a size 2 (if I remember) - I'd say if I tried a bigger hook I'd get a lot less takes. I did wonder if there was a longer shanked version which would make unhooking easier, but it appears not.

Time to hit the internet again.....credit card at the ready....

The other thing I have noticed is that the flounder would eat the bling as well, given a chance. Seems once they start swallowing a bait, they won't stop until they can no longer see the bait in front of them.

I had a couple of hookups where the fish had taken all the bait and the first couple of beads of bling, right up to the spoon - I'd been using the bling as a bait stop.

I'm not sure if putting a spoon with a bead behind it crimped just above the hook would put some fish off, but it does seem to stop them getting the hook down any further.....

Their is a great way to remove hooks from flats, easier to see that explain but here goes. Form a loop of line on the snood and push it back between the gill plates and the gill cover. By lifting the gill cover gently, you will be able to see and get the line ( if the fishes mouth is too small, use a Gemini discorger to loop around the lline and pull out through the gill cover). By pulling gently on the loop, the hook is upended and can then be pushed out through the mouth. By taking your time amd working gently, this trick works for most flats.

Thanks Cooke, I'd heard that described before alright. It's difficult to do when your fingers are frozen though, especially without damaging the gills of small fish. (Lets face it, any fish too small for the pan or to count in a competition is one you want to live to fight another day). I was out the last day (freezing all day) and it was all I could do to unhook the easy ones - my mackerel oil had turned the consistency of toothpaste. What I'm really after is a way to avoid deep hooking altogether (if possible, or as much as possible) - prevention being better than cure etc...

Hi

I've been using circles for flatfish and they do hook themselves quite well but I have difficulty in finding circles below 1/0 in size. Unfortunately the few I had and used resulted in several big flounders gut hooking on the circles too... and they are almost impossible to get out without surgery - so I've had to leave them in. Not the ideal solution. Works on small fish.

The overall result is that I have reluctantly returned to using B940 in size 1s now or 1/0s depending on the venue. I think the only real solution is to up the hook size - if you're fishing for the pan, it stops the tiddlers from annoying your, but clearly it is not the preferred solution for competitions.

Gerry's of Morecambe appear to stock a few different sized circles, so I'm going to try them. I'll have to get the two rods on the go for a while and see if B940 size 2 with the barb flattened helps as far as unhooking goes, and also try a few with the spoon trapped right down close to the hook eye - and see what that does to catch rates Vs the usual way.

The experimentation never ends, does it?

Every flounder I have ever caught seems to have swallowed the bloody hook. However I recently started using varivas big mouth hooks, and all my fish of late have been lip hooked. Whether that's just luck, or simply down to the size of hook and the wide gape (2/0's baited with sandeel) I don't know! Long may it continue though!

The experimentation never ends, does it?

Nope! :lol:

What sort of size of flounder are you talking here Steve? A lot of the ones we see at the moment (especially in daylight, it seems) are in the low to mid 20cm bracket. I felt that a bigger hook would cut the catch rate and did for a bit up my hook size - with the result I caught nearly nothing.

the last time i was in glasgow angling centre i got some extra fine wire mustad circle hooks in size 4(maybe it was size2?) havent had a chance to try them yet but the only problem with full circle hooks is that they dont really suit worm baits, they are best with the likes of fish strip hooked only once or twice.
you could try the likes of varivas semi circle hooks?
ive recently tried the new mustad neon hooks in size 4 and most of the flats and round fish seem to be hooked in the mouth area rather than the gut.
its a hard one to call as hook size and shape varies depending on bait size and target species.
sometimes some fish will die, even if you cut the hook in them but we can all only try to unhook and release them as best we can.

Hi Sandman, I use b940s and have taken to crushing the barbs whenever I am scratching around as I hated not being able to take the hook out quickly and having to see the fish suffer more. I asked a v.similar question to yours here before.
I've found a crushed barb great for easily unhooking dogfish,and some of the time with flats when I see how far in the hook went I think I'll never get it out but comes out easily enough. Unfortunately a lot of the time I still have to wiggle and pull the hook alot to get anywhere. :cry:
Nearly all my whiting have been v. deep hooked this year and a crushed barb didn't make much difference.
What I have found with a barbless hook a deep hooked flatty or anything is that if your can't get it out at first attempt its normally v. difficult to remove. Just my experience though.
But your right, the ideal would would be to find something that prevents deep hooking in the first place.