when to strike tope

I had i few tope runs the other night the tope took 30-40 yards before stoping and droping it each time, do i wait for the second run or do i strike during the first 30-40 yards of the run.

Hi

Your problem is that if you strike when they make the first run, you'll probably only succeed in pulling the bait out of the mouths, since tope strike first to kill the fish before swimming off to consume it elsewhere.

I've had this with tope and a similar problem far more often with bull huss, with the huss holding on for dear life until practically out of the water and then spitting the bait back at you with a dirty eye!

I am not sure why the tope might drop it but they do, its not uncommon. Maybe they are feeding too well or something about the bait just don't feel right to them? Maybe Cooke or someone can shed light on this...

One option that might be worthwhile is trying some of the big circle hooks - designed specifically for active predators like tope. I have used them on flounders to get around gut hooking them with almost 100% success but as to whether it will hook a tope on the first run... dunno.

Sorry I can not be more helpful, only landed one tope from the shore...

FWIW

You weren't getting these runs in Wicklow now where you, have been bitten off there in the last week.

just make sure you use a big hook with plenty of the point showing. dont go below 6/0 as they arent shy! i use an 8/0 cox and rawle. these are really strong hooks that are nicely offsetted which increases chances of a hook up, and fish i have landed tend not to be too deep hooked

Hi,

Find Cox & Rawle meat hooks while excellent a bit overgunned for tope especially trying to set a hook with that thick wire at distance. 6/0 Viking is my personal preference and has never failed me.

Tope dropping baits sounds like you were using frozen bait? If that's the case then you can blame it on that. I've had them do exactly as you say time and time again, fresh anything is better and will stop that problem.

I know all the old books say wait for the first run to stop and when the fish turns (they will turn the bait in their mouth and swallow it as they pause) and begins the second run - strike. Recipe for lost fish and deeply hooked fish I reckon. Generally we wouldn't be using large baits from the shore and I find striking after 4-5 seconds on the first run (just count to five) OR as you feel the fish slowing on that first run is the best method. Baits from the shore even half a mackerel fillet aren't huge and the tope will pick these up and they should be well inside their mouths from the offset.

On the other point mentioned above I do think Tope are incredibly shy at times and very clever. So much so you probably don't even know they were just looking at your bait before deciding to swim off. They pick up on hooks, traces, resistance when they pick up baits etc. etc. and of course the quality of that bait. Not necessarily all the time but on occasions the careful angler will pick up a few more fish. Hide that hook point as much as you can. When sewing a mackerel fillet onto the hook I always make sure the hook point comes back out on the fleshy side so it's partially/ almost buried in the soft meat of the fillet. This still leaves it perfect for striking.

Regards,
Liam

ive only had tope from the east coast and these fish are incredibly big. 60, 70 even 80lb'ers run along the coast. these fish dont mess around so i make sure im properly kitted out because i want to get the fish landed asap so that it will not be knackered when being returned. ive seen someone put a fish back in the dark and think that it swam off, only for it to wash up on the shore in front of me.

thanks lads i was using fresh bait, so i will have to strike sooner.

Tope can be remarkably fussy at times. I had experienced several dropped runs over the last few years. Most of these were short runs which I put down to doggies or huss but cannot be certain. Some of the longer runs were definately tope. I do like to strike into the running fish to avoid deep hooking, letting the fish go thirty - fourty yards and some fish have dropped the bait within that space. As I use whole chunks of fish, I leave the hook point proud. This could be a cause of dropped baits as could the wire trace being dragged across the fishes head or gills. A recent article in Sea Angler on boat fishing for tope suggested that a 50% ratio of runs to hook-ups was normal.

I would`t think a dogfish could lift a 6oz griper and run 30-40 yards. i got 3 runs in 1hour just before high water using fresh bait, and noting after high water.What do you think cooke ?

Brian,

I agree with most of what your saying, if you don't mind me chipping in with a few observations not being mentioned in this thread.

1/ Fish are not That clever, they know how to hunt their chosen meal and follow the same pattern most of the time. A friend of mine in Florida hooked into a Dolphin a couple of weeks ago, they are smart , but it still got hooked, broke off as it happens, but I hope you see my point.

2/ Style of hook can play a big part, why do you think the Long Liners use Circle hooks on relatively short snoods of about 12"-18" They want fish to live as long as possible until they can be taken on-board ship as fresh as possible, very few fish get gut-hooked with a circle hook, great for sharks, as they like to NIP the bait in their teeth to stun or kill before they take it into their mouth, circle hooks work best with this kind of take.

3/Most anglers fishing for Tope over here and in the UK will not have the reel set on free spool with only the clicker on to stop an over-run, the difference here is, in the strike, if the fish is head on to the angler a strike may pull the hook and bait out of the fish's mouth, if the fish goes seaward or left or right then a strike will set the hook (more often than not)
If the fish has not taken the hook inside of its mouth by the time you strike then you will pull the bait away from the fish, there is no way of telling the magic time to strike, in my opinion the longer the better (within reason)

I'm not saying right and wrong, just repeating a few very good tips given to me by anglers who have had far more success than me at shark fishing.

Tom.

i was fishing with the reel in free spool and the clicker on is it better to just back off the drag and put the clicker on ,it is a 525mag.

Guest (you should realy log a name in)

Speaking for myself, a 525mag is as good as you need and if it were me I'd have it in free spool with the drag already set, then its just the knock of the switch to get you into the fish.

Listen though, Tope landings are few and far between, to have one drop off on you is common at the best of time. Just keep trying, sooner or later you'll get one (law of averages)

Tom.

Lads,

This is turning into a lively one! Great. Yup I bought some circle hooks some time back with a view to trying them for tope next season. Get biguns 5/0 and 6/0's look small enough.

I understood one of the main reasons longliners used circle hook patterns was cause they promoted self hooking with lines unattended for long periods of time. They should work well for Tope but will they have advantages in a situation where you are striking a running fish?

Still don't like the idea that they are dropping the bait, something is not right here and from my experience you can get a much better hookup ratio that 50/50. Long pulleys and running paternosters (combined with a shockleader gives you a long bolt rig) are the standard here in Kerry and I've seen more hookups with running paternosters - less resistance?

525mags are the reel of choice. I find it difficult to keep the reel in freespool with the ratchet on and set the ratchet against a light drag to combat wind/tide/weed giving false runs etc.

I still reckon you should give em a bit more credit on the wit's front too!

Liam

Liamo,

Your right about circle hooks and self hooking, anyone who knows how to use a circle hook properly will never strike. The design of the hook is meant to catch onto the rim of the jaw, that one of the reasons a true circle hook will NOT be off-set.

As to the brain of a shark being clever enough to know there is something funny going on with the bait, think about it, some sharks have been found to have all kinds of stuff inside them after gutting.

I think if the hook is set in the bait through the head instead of through the body, that will run the risk of a false take happening on to big a bait, I like to keep a flapper short, Tope don't have that big of a mouth and they do tend to bite at a fish from the side more often than not.

Reels...I know guys in Florida and Texas who have landed 200lb sharks and over on a Penn 525mag, ample in my opinion for anything that swims in our waters.

Tom.

My baits where 6" whitting flappers on a 6/0 with the head down does head up or head down mather.

Rockhopper,

Yup they don't have very big mouths, they're more "flat" if that makes sense. From the shore I never go any bigger than a mackerel fillet split in two.

If using a whole fish or flapper then I would imagine the old adage of waiting for the second run so the fish can turn the bait in it's mouth might be more appropriate.

Interestingly, forgot to mention this point and it relates to the title of this thread I had long discussions with a charter skipper Bert Kelly out of Cromane who used to do a lot of tope fishing from the boat out of Dingle Bay and Castlemaine Hbr. He often told me the second run might not start for a couple of minutes on occasions. "You might think the fish has dropped the bait but he hasn't..." he used to tell me, just keep waiting and waiting and then the second run will start.

Could that be another explanation? On those dropped bites, did the run slow down gradually and then stop or was it abrupt i.e. did the fish just drop it mid run? In the former maybe the fish was still there and the angler thinking he had missed the fish just retrieved and pulled it out of his mouth?

Liam

They ran not that fast but steady about 30/40 yards then stopped and dropped back i then lifted in to it but it lifted clean each time. i was using a long pulley rig.

Liamo,

A few weeks ago my son landed quite a big smoothy down the coast somewhere (cant remember/not a secret :lol: ) he got it right up onto the beach, as he got hold of the tail the hook FELL out of the fishes mouth. My point in this, a few minutes sooner and it could have been the same story that started this thread :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Is this not why most of us prefer sea fishing to any other type of angling, after the bait has hit the water who the F knows what your gonna get back, the amount of guys who are fishing for normal species and hit into a Tope or big Huss and end up going back in the car thinking "if only" man! that what I like about it.

I just wish the fish would read SeaAngler and do what the experts say they should do :lol: :lol: :lol: make life a bit easier, eh!

Tom.

What tides fishes best new moon or full moon/spring.

ps Thanks for all the input lads i will just keep at it .