Master Angler

Anyone know the results or how it fished?

not sure how it fished but results were,

1st noel kinnear , john dory
2nd john maddock, kilmore
3rd tom mcadam, dublin telesport
4th david rowe, south shore
5th ronan doherty, stella maris

fishing was terrible with half the anglers blanking on two out of the three sessions. as usual with the master angler competition it was reduced to a lottery instead of a means of selecting the best anglers to represent our country.
i dont understand why the size limits were so ridiculously high - (for instance bass had to be 43cm to count and codling had to be 38cm) - especially since the event was catch and release, and the eventual team would be fishing foreign waters for small fish. as usual the irish team finished well down the table in the world champs last weekend, no disrespect to the lads on the team, but perhaps they werent the best lads for the team.
if you ask any of the the respected match anglers in the country they will tell you the same.
next year the master angler competition is being held in leinster where there will be sensible size limits (20cm) and hopefully plenty of fish, but i have heard that one of the venues will be katts strand in wexford which is another ridiculous venue for a competition like this.

Guest

While I agree on the comments about fish sizes I don't agree on all your comments about the team selected. If you look at this years team many of the names are well known and respected in the IFSA.
Tom McAdam for instance was on the Irish team in 2003 which won the Silver medal in the world championships in Italy. One of the team won an indiviual Gold medal that year (it's amazing but the press at the time, RTE included did not consider fishing as a sport worth giving air time to). The lads always give their best and represent their country with pride. I know that a weekend away fishing 3 competitions over 2 days can be a bit of a gamble but what other method can be used, all anglers are fishing the same beaches and draw for pegs.

Damien

i agree that most years there is one or two anglers on the team who in my opinion are rightfully there, however to consistently compete against the best teams in the world a team needs five solid anglers. the team that got the silver was one of the better teams and they did extremely well to get it, but in my humble opinion there were not five solid anglers on that team (even one of the members of the team said this to me!) ...there lies the beauty of the sport - on any given day anyone can do well! also the fishing that year in italy was similar the master angler in that there were few fish, meaning that luck played a greater than normal part in the results.

a couple of years ago at the peg draw of the master angler, a speech was given by one of the commitee members of the ifsa saying that it was great that the competition gives everyone the chance to compete for their country. while this is good in a way, is it really the best way of building a team who competes against the best anglers in the world??

if you look at the english and welsh team selection methods, it is clearly a superior way of selecting a team who will consistently be competing with the best match anglers.

the english team is chosen based on the results and current form of anglers, whereas here someone who gets on the team through the master angler might not have fished for the whole year prior to going away.

the welsh fish a number of competitions throughout the whole year which means that the more consistent anglers come out on top, whereas here the three sessions in the master angler are fished over two days!

hopefully in the near future the irish system will be changed, as there are many good anglers here and there is the potential for some really good teams to be put together.

just my two cents!! (or three!)

guest, please register on the forums so we all know who we are talking to.....?
well sure the amount of anglers that someone qualifying for the master angler competition has to fish against during the year in their own club will balance it all out in the first place, at the end of the day at the master angler you have roughly 100 of the best anglers in the country competing against each other and if they make the team over the given weekend, fair play to them, they deserve it, but once they make the team the choosen manager has a year to sharpen their skills if they have to fish a different way?ie if after small fish take them to practice on venues with lots of small fish to sharpen their speed fishing up, take them coarse fishing to sharpen targeting smaller fish and refine light line tactics etc?
if they get it they are all good enough to compete at any level, if you go to a selection process you are not giving every member of the federation a fair chance to make a team or represent the country, only the guys with the money and spare time to rum all over the country to different qualifiers etc etc.the way it is done in other home nations is an elitist system and most of these guys are sponsored etc in some form to be able to afford to get to this level, that kind of thing doesnt happen over here.plus, even our teams arent sponsored like the other nations mentioned?
every year scotland has around 2o-25 anglers in a fish off pool and that isnt really giving the majority of anglers a fair chance in the federation?
an angler making the home nations team , does so over just a few competitions and over the last 3 years the home nations shore team has had a 1st, 4th and narrowly pushed into 3rd by one fish this year.
the systems in place in our federation are good enough i beleive, its the team coaching aspect which is at fault.
only my tuppence worth.....

guest, please register on the forums so we all know who we are talking to.....?
well sure the amount of anglers that someone qualifying for the master angler competition has to fish against during the year in their own club will balance it all out in the first place, at the end of the day at the master angler you have roughly 100 of the best anglers in the country competing against each other and if they make the team over the given weekend, fair play to them, they deserve it, but once they make the team the choosen manager has a year to sharpen their skills if they have to fish a different way?ie if after small fish take them to practice on venues with lots of small fish to sharpen their speed fishing up, take them coarse fishing to sharpen targeting smaller fish and refine light line tactics etc?
if they get it they are all good enough to compete at any level, if you go to a selection process you are not giving every member of the federation a fair chance to make a team or represent the country, only the guys with the money and spare time to rum all over the country to different qualifiers etc etc.the way it is done in other home nations is an elitist system and most of these guys are sponsored etc in some form to be able to afford to get to this level, that kind of thing doesnt happen over here.plus, even our teams arent sponsored like the other nations mentioned?
every year scotland has around 2o-25 anglers in a fish off pool and that isnt really giving the majority of anglers a fair chance in the federation?
an angler making the home nations team , does so over just a few competitions and over the last 3 years the home nations shore team has had a 1st, 4th and narrowly pushed into 3rd by one fish this year.
the systems in place in our federation are good enough i beleive, its the team coaching aspect which is at fault.
only my tuppence worth.....

if you think that the present system here in ireland is the best then thats your opinion. however look at the results of the team in the past. i dont want to try and explain further what a ridiculous system it is to people who dont understand. you say the manager has a year to sharpen the team, however the reality is that the manager probably doesnt even know how to tie a knot! an exaggeation but you know what i mean.

the home nations is a completely different competition altogether. i believe that the 1st came on home waters and is a good result, but i wouldnt say that the rest of the results are good (ie 3rd and 4th) seeing as there are only 4 teams!

the master angler throws up some beauties that we irish can be really proud of when talking to other anglers from other nations. for instance anglers have been known to turn up late to a night session on the beach with no headlamp and drunk drunk! not the ideal candidates for the team might you agree?? also people arguing that wading should not be allowed on a SHALLOW SURF beach because they are not bothered buying waders, or because some other competitors have an unfair advantage when wading because their legs are longer than others.

im just tired of people sitting back and accepting that the system in place will do when really there is the potential for our lads to do well abroad

well, every one to their own opinion.at the end of the day a decision will be made on it tomorrow at the agm.

As a once a week angler who fishes the odd comp I wouldn't like to see the master angler system dumped I could see alot of clubs leaving maybe even the one I'm attached to and seeking out there own insurance to avoid the big IFSA leavy or going to the wall all together. I'm sure the master angler selection could be modified but to be honest it doesn't really concern due to lack of angling ability. From what I understand alot of the English SACs aren't connected to the NFSA and there have been complaints about the team selection being cliquey.

Donagh

Phil,

I say this to you with respect as I am English and live in Dublin, because of this I don't think its right for me to give my opinion unless its asked for.

You said, other nations have an elitist method for picking their teems, but is that not what a national team is "The Elite" national selection can not be done like a lottery.

I know a few of the English shore team very well, they don't get that much sponsorship, they still have to spend a pretty penny of their own money to fish for England. I have no idea what other national teams get.

One thing I will repeat that has been said by quite a few of the English guys as well as a good few over here, any system of selection that does not include Steven Brennan must be lacking somewhere.

Tom.

Phil,

Sorry I forgot to log on, that last post regarding Steven Brennan was from me.

Tom.

From what I understand a lot of the English SACs aren't connected to the NFSA and there have been complaints about the team selection being cliquey.

Donagh[/quote]

Donagh,

You cant please all the people all the time, but that is the first I've heard about complaints or Cliquey selection regarding the English team.

This year they come withing 1 gram of Silver/Bronze, last year 2 Golds and a Silver, the year before Bronze. Over that time the team has not once been the same anglers, yes they do have regulars in the team, but even they would be dropped if they had a dip in form or could not adapt to a certain venue.

The French have had one of the best YOUNG teams for the last few years, everyone making comments about them being champions of the future, what do France do, find another method of selection and they came 9th this year.

Tom.

Last edited by Rockhopper on Fri Nov 04, 2005 4:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.

My point is that the IFSA isn't just about the Irish team winning medals. Keeping small clubs alive and in the federation is equally if not more important. The master angler system promotes match attendance, affiliation to the IFSA and is transparrent. From what I understand membership of the NFSA even among match anglers is low.

Donagh

Donagh,

Your right about NFSA membership in the UK. Most clubs take out their own insurance liability for the opens they hold, that makes the match fee a lot cheaper than here in Ireland. I believe they get better attendance because of it, it means they can put the prize money higher or add more to the prize table.

I have heard many Irish anglers complain about the share of the club fees that are taken by the IFSA. As an Englishman I will not comment right or wrong on that, even though my mother is Irish 8)

What I will say from my heart is, I would be happy to see Ireland get silver for the next 100 years as long as England get gold :) but I do hate to see Wales or Scotland do better than the Irish. I was glad to hear that Ireland beat England in Italy on one of the matches last week 8)

Seriously though, the method used now leaves far to much to chance, your peg draw is Luck, after that its the angling skill and hard work that wins medals IMHO

Tom.

hi all,

i also think that the master angler weekend is a ridiculus system for picking our international team and we will continue to struggle at international level untill it is changed. i can only imagine that we are a laughing stock among other nations especially when the likes of Brennen and moreso world champion of only a few fears ago, Timmy O Sullivan don't automatically make the team. i do hasten to add that this is no slight on the angling abilities of those who finished in the top five after a very tough weekends fishing. while not a complete advocate of a 'hand picked' selection process i believe it would have certain advantages - international teams for most sports are selected by managment officials, this not only ensures the best represent thier country but also allows for some level of continuity.

while i think the IFSA believe they are doing their best alot of their methods rules and regulations are antiquated and in some cases downright ridiculous. i can't understand why the size limits keep changing from year to year not only for the master angler but nationwide in all IFSA competitions, isnt it time size limits were set at national level and all clubs had to comply? i currently fish 3 different clubs each with different rules and different rules again at master angler level.

another thing i and many other anglers found it hard to comprehend at the master angler is how the points were awarded for a blank in your zone. i was fortunate enough to be among the small group of competitors who had fish in each of the three sessions over the two days but to my amazement found myself outside the top twenty having been beaten by competitors who only managed to catch fish in two sessions. this really defied belief with anglers who blanked getting as many as 17 points!( considering a zone win is worth 36 points). i understand this system is to compensate for a tough zone where few fish are landed but i think it goes more toward penalising those who do catch fish in hard conditions.

on a final note i would like to say well done to all the 108 anglers who fished the masters in very difficult conditions. it would also be interesting to know how mant SAI forum members represented thier clubs at the masters - come on put your hands up!

Rocketman,

I'm with you all the way on the size limit issue. What beats me, OK in the old days of weigh-in's (where fish had to be brought back) I could always see and take the point of anglers as a group abiding by the same laws as the commercial fishing industry. In these days of catch and release surly it makes more sense to have a rule on any fish landed having a point, fair for one and fair for all, what I don't see as fair is an anger walking of the beach who has caught 10 fish and blanked where the guy next to him caught one fish that made size by a tits whisker!

I'm also with you on nothing taken away from the guys who qualified for the Master Angler, such venues are a must for anglers who have worked hard and want to compete against each other. The selectors should not have to look there for a team, most if not all clubs register their results and the Opens too, there is where they should look for form, surly!

I don't necessarily agree that IFSA, EFSA or NFSA know what they are doing or doing their best, half are out of touch and half are only it it for what they can get out of it and F the sport. Just my opinion but I stand by it, I know some of the people who know who I am and who I mean also know I have said this to their face.

Unless the whole of European anglers sing from the same page and the governing bodies get their acts together as a whole, our kids will be fishing with game-boys instead of rods and line.

Tom.

Regarding the the selection process for our national team, at the moment its far from perfect. The method the IFSA have for selecting the junior team is far better than the senior team. The juniors fish five to six qualifiers in their own province over two to three months, then the top five from each province fish three sessions over two days. The top five from this represent Ireland at international level. This is a better system than the seniors because it takes 3 years to get a senior team. Win master angler in your club (1 year), go on to fish All Ireland Master Angler the Following year (2 years) and on the third year you go and fish World Championships. At least with the juniors its all done in one year, so if your on form and you are willing to do a small bit of traveling you have the chance to fish at international level for your country.

I heard at the comp yesterday the proposed change was passed. Only heard second hand so I don't know the much of the detail but from what I understand it will be league consisting of the top 10 fisnisher of the previous 3 years master angler competitions.

Donagh

I was at the AGM and can confirm that the qualification system has been changed - it will take effect from next years master angler.

The anglers who finish in position 2 to 10 from next year (2006 ) plus the top ten from 2004 and 2005 will fish a series of qualifiers for four places on the team. The only guaranteed place is the winner of the master angler 2006 who will be the captain of the 2007 team.