My rod end keeps sailing off into the great blue yonder !

Hi Guys,

I wonder if the more experienced amongst you could give me some advice.

I recently bought a new 2piece rod and I'm sick of the end flying off I'm doing a lot of lure fishing with it and so it is getting constant use casting and retrieving but surely it should not be doing this ? I have taken to wrapping tape around the joint each trip but I don't feel this is satisfactory. The exterior of the end of the female joint is now showing stress marks. Should I mention this to the dealer I bought the rod off? It was only about 2 months ago.

FB

Is the whipping reinforcement missing from the end of the female spigot? this can allow it to stretch loosening the joint. Then the male goes in further before finding a tight fit, and the lower blank can touch the upper before the join is tight.

Cure, replace the whipping.
Add a small blade of grass when setting up the rod in the field.
Rub a candle on the male spigot sparingly.

In extreme, saw off 3mm approx of the female, then replace the whipping.

flynnboy, under no circumstances should you tamper with the rod, this will void your warranty.
Bring it back to the shop and let them deal with it. You have rights as a customer. Stand up for them and don't let them fob you off with excuses.
more info here: http://www.consumerassociation.ie/rights.html

I'd go with what Austrian said. I'd have it back to were I bought it. The shop can return the rod to their suppliers and should be more concerned about keeping a customer. If they offer to repair it tell them you'd rather it replaced.

If it's an old rod and out of warranty then you might consider waxing it.

try the candle wax....it works....

The Austrian has made a very good point.
All of the treatments I described are what we expect do to maintain a used rod that is suffering from wear and tear,and they work well.
I assumed you meant you bought a used rod.
The newer a rod is, the better the fit of the spigots should be, and two months is basically still new from the maintenance standpoint, and you should be able to have tight fitting joints in it.

But I still don't get why the female end should be showing signs of cracking. It should not be really visible, being under a protective reinforcing whipping.

TEC 7 if you want a one piece

Hi Guys

Thanks for all of the input.

The rod is in fact a brand new Daiwa Longbeam Bass. It has no whipping on the end of the female joint at all. I guess the reason it is showing stress signs is because it must have started moving away unnoticed and then when I cast with it almost at the end of the spigot the casting action has stressed the cavity over the spigot end. I think.

The point is that this is a brand new rod and surely the end section should not be moving away unnoticed. Is this my fault, should I be regularly checking the stability of the joint when casting to make sure it can't fly off ? I don't want to go back and the find I'm being told it is my fault for not regularly checking.

I have other rods and do a lot of Salmon fly fishing and this has never happened with any of my other rods.

I don't want to go back and the find I'm being told it is my fault...

flynnboy, it does not reflect on your consumer rights if you have noticed the rod slowly became dysfunctional or not, under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980, anything you buy from a retailer must be:

* of merchantable quality
* fit for its normal purpose, and reasonably durable
* as described, whether the description is part of the advertising or wrapping, on a label, or something said by the salesperson.

When you buy goods from a retailer, you make a contract with him. He agrees to provide certain goods to you for a certain price. If your purchase turns out to be faulty, the retailer, not the manufacturer, is responsible to you and must sort out your complaint. You are entitled to a refund, a replacement or a repair.

Once you are speaking to someone in authority, be polite but firm. Do not lose your temper, swear, shout or make threats. If you remain reasonable, the chances are the person you are dealing with will too. Explain the problem and say what you want the shop to do to rectify the matter.

... should I be regularly checking the stability of the joint when casting to make sure it can't fly off ? ....

Yes, you should be. If you took a few casts with a loose joint you did it all by yourself. There is a small telltale click, or sensation of a knock that lets us know it's no longer tight.

And those salmon fly rods could have the same problem soon too if you're not careful. A salmon angler who does not tape joints, and who does spey casts will have exactly the same problem, but more likely a fatal breal, a splitting of the blank during a cast. The twisting action of this cast actually loosens a spigot that is put together tight.

Quoting the Sale of Goods Act may sound very knowledgable, but it does not cut much ice when the guy in the shop says" It was a good fit when we put it together in the shop. It was definitely OK then, we both saw that while we were inspecting it. This had to have happened afterwards"

BTW There is a valid way the reinforcing whipping may be absent. This is when a manufacturer ensures an extra wrap of composite fabric in the area of the spigot. Often we can see this by a visible swelling in the rod at this spot. Some top class rods have a tiny stainless steel collar for doing the job.

Real world solutions: I suggest you talk with the seller frankly and honestly. "... It happened, might have been me, don't think so, but how can I know for sure..." They undoubtedly want to be still in business next week and next year with you as their customer. Any credible business will do their level best to get you sorted out for as low a cost as can be done, even if warranty does not cover it, (but it quite probably will).
Worst case scenario, they sell you a new top at the cost to them minus VAT (it's a warranty issue they are looking after even if the maker is not) and that would be a very low cost fix.
However often they will say something like: ... " this batch had a higher failure rate than we usually expect to see, we've seen 5 already but for the number we sold there should have been only none or one. So we're not surprised to hear this and we have already talked with the distribution before you contacted us... now lets see what we can do". This is after all how a shop can get a customer for life, assuming the customer is a reasonable person and values what they do for them. Good aftersales on big items makes an awful lot of cheap internet deals look expensive when viewed over time.. If the first seller fails you, often another dealer (not all) will step into their empty shoes to gain you as a new customer, if they perceive you as worth this trouble. So you can get more than one bite at the cherry.

... should I be regularly checking the stability of the joint when casting to make sure it can't fly off ? ....

Yes, you should be. If you took a few casts with a loose joint you did it all by yourself. There is a small telltale click, or sensation of a knock that lets us know it's no longer tight.

And those salmon fly rods could have the same problem soon too if you're not careful. A salmon angler who does not tape joints, and who does spey casts will have exactly the same problem, but more likely a fatal breal, a splitting of the blank during a cast. The twisting action of this cast actually loosens a spigot that is put together tight.

Quoting the Sale of Goods Act may sound very knowledgable, but it does not cut much ice when the guy in the shop says" It was a good fit when we put it together in the shop. It was definitely OK then, we both saw that while we were inspecting it. This had to have happened afterwards"

BTW There is a valid way the reinforcing whipping may be absent. This is when a manufacturer ensures an extra wrap of composite fabric in the area of the spigot. Often we can see this by a visible swelling in the rod at this spot. Some top class rods have a tiny stainless steel collar for doing the job.

Real world solutions: I suggest you talk with the seller frankly and honestly. "... It happened, might have been me, don't think so, but how can I know for sure..." They undoubtedly want to be still in business next week and next year with you as their customer. Any credible business will do their level best to get you sorted out for as low a cost as can be done, even if warranty does not cover it, (but it quite probably will).
Worst case scenario, they sell you a new top at the cost to them minus VAT (it's a warranty issue they are looking after even if the maker is not) and that would be a very low cost fix.
However often they will say something like: ... " this batch had a higher failure rate than we usually expect to see, we've seen 5 already but for the number we sold there should have been only none or one. So we're not surprised to hear this and we have already talked with the distribution before you contacted us... now lets see what we can do". This is after all how a shop can get a customer for life, assuming the customer is a reasonable person and values what they do for them. Good aftersales on big items makes an awful lot of cheap internet deals look expensive when viewed over time.. If the first seller fails you, often another dealer (not all) will step into their empty shoes to gain you as a new customer, if they perceive you as worth this trouble. So you can get more than one bite at the cherry.

Well I am a reasonably experienced fly angler and I always know when a joint is working loose as a result of casting. I asked the question about checking as I am new to the salt and there are certain different kinds of approaches to tackle and so I prefer to view myself and problems as a beginner.

The problem with this rod is that there are absolutely no signs of the end section working loose until it suddenly flies off. I would normally expect to feel a change in the action as the end starts to slip and is working loose but this does not happen. As a fly angler I do tape my end section in particular but this is because I use 'Snake Rolls' which is putting an awful lot of stress on the rod. But this is not Spey casting only straightforward surf casting with a lure. Yes, I cast for distance but I think a rod should be up to that.

I actually checked my invoice this morning and discovered that in fact I have had it for less than a month. I think I can safely say that really it should not be flying off with such regularity at this early stage. I just emailed the shop 10 minutes ago and so I await their response. I have simply explained the problem and asked them what their normal policy is in this situation.

I'll report back when I have a reply.

FB

flynnboy, under no circumstances should you tamper with the rod, this will void your warranty.
Bring it back to the shop and let them deal with it. You have rights as a customer. Stand up for them and don't let them fob you off with excuses.
more info here: http://www.consumerassociation.ie/rights.html

that is good sound advice, dont tamper with the rod in any way, if you do, the shop will use this to cacel your warranty. just explain the problem to them, and dont accept a repair job, ask for a replacement....

... and dont accept a repair job, ask for a replacement....

A replacement new top will only sort it out if the top is the problem, though from your description, it seems so.

Best of luck and let us know how you get on.

is this the same rod that wouldent come a part for you 2 wks ago? if it is i would bring it straight back providing you dident damage it when it got stuck

is this the same rod that wouldent come a part for you 2 wks ago? if it is i would bring it straight back providing you dident damage it when it got stuck

Yep.I definitely did not damage it when it got stuck. It came apart easily with the wd40 after I waited a while. It has been flying off long before it got stuck

Still waiting to hear back from the shop.

Quoting the Sale of Goods Act may sound very knowledgable, but it does not cut much ice when the guy in the shop says" It was a good fit when we put it together in the shop. It was definitely OK then, we both saw that while we were inspecting it. This had to have happened afterwards"

A great deal of common sense to most of your comments tubenfish, but if the above statement is true, then the rod is definately NOT fit for purpose.

..........

it does not reflect on your consumer rights if you have noticed the rod slowly became dysfunctional or not, under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980, anything you buy from a retailer must be:

* of merchantable quality
* fit for its normal purpose, and reasonably durable

Flynnboy, stick to the austrians comments, and you shouldnt go far wrong.

Let us knbow how you get on, and good luck with it.

... Well I am a reasonably experienced fly angler and I always know when a joint is working loose as a result of casting. I asked the question about checking as I am new to the salt and there are certain different kinds of approaches to tackle and so I prefer to view myself and problems as a beginner.... I actually checked my invoice this morning and discovered that in fact I have had it for less than a month.

You might be new to salt water fishing but a rod is a rod. So long as you treat it in a reasonable way, it should not be doing this. Most ferrule or spigot problems take 5 or more years to develop under normal use.

Have faith in the seller being professional about it for now.

... and dont accept a repair job, ask for a replacement....

A replacement new top will only sort it out if the top is the problem, though from your description, it seems so.

Best of luck and let us know how you get on.

what i meant by "asking for a replacement", was a complete rod. which fylnnboy is entitled to if he's not happy with the one he got because of the problem, sorry should have made myself clearer on this on my first post

Well I mailed him this morning and I still have not had a response......... I will give him the benefit of the doubt and wait a couple of days before contacting him again.
Cheers

FB

Well guys. I mailed the guy last Tuesday morning, no response, mailed him again yesterday morning - still no response. Damn, looks like I'm in for a fight with the wrong kind of slippery fish I'll ring him this afternoon - not looking forward to it.

BTW my mail was very polite and straightforward, explained the situation and asked what his policy was on this kind of thing.

FB