stupidity and greed.

i looked at disbelief in the irish angler today, some bright spark or sparks who are very well known in the forum decide to do a four page spread on monkstown sea wall, which im sad to say will know be slaughtered for the remainder of the cod season by trawler after trawler. it is true that it has already been hit hard by the local trawlers but now every trawler in the south coast is going to savage it thanks lads hope you made a few quid from the spread youre about the only ones who gained anything from it.
your argument well loads of readers can now enjoy the mark which is true and great. but 95% of sea anglers know were monkstown is and how well it can fish, monkstown cod mecca - not any more boys fair play to you.

harry
co waterford

Hi Harry

First of all I have not seen the Feb edition but...

I can understand your frustration but I think your criticism is a bit wide of the mark. Most commercial skippers are fully aware of when the codling are "in" - ask anyone who fishes in Arthurstown down your neck of the woods - it does not need a magazine article to publicise this to people typically living in the area...

What is needed is a shoreline ban on commercial fishing (and not just trawling), a one mile limit to sea that also covers the estuaries and natural harbours, like Cork and Waterford and the Shannon to name a few, leaving them as a protected nursery areas. That would put an end to a host of bad practices all around the coast including flatfish raking in Lahinch and by all accounts up in Donegal, night trawling in Clew Bay in the summer without lights and the shoveling in of codling (a lot of it as any shore angler will attest below legal size) all over the place...

I write the piece on three shore marks each month, and with some rare exceptions I do not list marks that are not known already... Monkstown is well known, has been for generations, you seriously telling me the skippers of Irish registered boats did not know about it before now?

Completely agree kieran. Harry monkstown is well trawled at the moment and will continue to be with or without an irish angler article. Everyone including non-anglers in cork knows about this mark and so do the comercials. My main complaint with this magazine is the amount of sea fishing space taken up with saltwater fly fishing. Some of the issues have been completely devoid of normal shore fishing material.

BTW the shannon estuary has been designated an area of conservation due to the dolphin pod. I'm still waiting on the shfb to get back to me on what this means.

Donagh

I agree with the comments made about Irish Angler. Although i am a reader and even a subscriber to the magazine, if it were not for Jims articles i would probably not read it. While Roger Baker is doing a very commendable job creating a well pictured and enjoyable magazine, it does seem to have too much fly fishing for my own personal liking. Roger is obviosly a fly fishing nut and may be a little biased. I have bought every issue of the mag so far more out of support for an irish magazine (and will continue to do so) but have yet to see an editorial that does not talk about fly fishing... Maybe that is where the market for the magazine is? I don't know. I would love to see a sea fishing mag exclusively but that seems unlikely due to Irelands low population base. I am happy to see the magazine doing well but a few more sea fishing article would be really nice. Also, I am sick of hearing about Bass! For gods sake. is there no other fish in the sea? and as for catching them on the fly... i'm gonna go now before i pull my hair out. :twisted:

Table of Contents for Irish Angler Sept 04(Sea Angling Related):

Page 20 Strand and Deliver
(Bass, From the Northern Strands, Argh, Beaches.)
Page 38 Grey Ghosts
(Mullet fishing, Very good.)
Page 48 Mackeral Strips
(The Joy of Mackeral, The Most Versatile Bait in our Ammo!)
Page 56 Do The Conger
(Jim and Sean go Dingy Congering, Very interesting)
Page 68 Sea Hotspots
(Kieran gives us 3 Marks to try)
Page 78 Get Your Skates on!
(Great Article on Skate Fishing in Ballycastle, Well done for the 198lb to Terry, But my mate got the First official 200+!! :twisted: :lol: :D )
Page 86 Sea Sellers
(Tackle Reviewed)

Table of Contents for Irish Angler Dec 04(Sea Angling Related):

Page 09 News - Irish Team Decided.
Page 20 Bass Ambition
(Under 'Sea', This is before Rodger put Bass Articles Under the 'Game' heading, Not to my interest, But I'm Sure the Jaminator and Co loved it)
Page 38 Where to Fish, Sea
(Another 3 Marks Exposed, by Kieran)
Page 42 Pilgramage to Brandom
(Jim and Sean give you an Insight into Small boat Angling for Pollack)
Page 70 The Carlingford Bass Festival
(More Bass, and Some Guiness)
Page 79 Sea Sellers
(Sea Tackle reviewed)
Page 86 The Wild West
(Wait a minute, Ive never seen one in the Flesh, But what is this I spy...? A Bass!)

Table of Contents for Irish Angler Jan 05(Sea Angling Related):

Page 20 Cod and Congers off the Rocks.
(Very Informative!)
Page 42 Flounder Fanatic
(Rekindled my interest in 2d fish)
Page 64 A Corking Festival
(Well Illustrated, Good Read)
Page 58 Improve your Saltwater Fly Fishing (Prt1) (Under Game)
(Game Angling for Salt water Species...)
Page 82 Where to Fish, Sea (Go Kieran, Go Kieran, Go Kieran)
(If I had a Car I'd go)
Page 91 Sea Sellers.
(4 Items of Sea Tackle reviewed to Destruction.)


Table of Contents for Irish Angler Feb 05(Sea Angling Related):
Page 30 Lunker Cod - From the Shore
(Information on the TYPE of mark you are looking for when Targeting Big Cod, Sadly no actual Marks listed!)
Page 44 Where to Fish, Sea
(Contimpating learning to Drive)
Page 64 Improve Your Salt Water Fly Fishing (Prt2) (Under Game)
(Fluff Chuckers Revolution, Not that I'm complaining!)
Page 70 Monkstown - Irish Cod Mecca
(Enjoyed the Article, Nowhere like that on the East Down Coast!! :cry:)
Page 90 Sea Sellers
(6 Items of Sea Gear Tried and Tested)

Thats a List of the General Content of a few Issues of Irish Angler, I personally believe that Rodger is doing his Upmost to cater for all the Anglers of Ireland, In truth, A Sales representative of Irish Angler was telling me that 60% of Anglers in Ireland are Game Fishermen, So the obvious choice is to keep them happy. However I believe this may not be true. Ok so not everyone is a Hardened Sea Angling Nut ( Like most of us on here ), But I can name at least 20 Anglers in my village who enjoy going out maybe only 10 times a year. We don't have Liscences to be counted by, So Surely they can't get an accurate Number of Sea Anglers.

What I would like to see, Is a couple of Sea Angling Articles, for Average Joe on the Pier, The Fish never have to be huge, But its nice to see how other people do it. Irish Angler obviously does this, I mean, They've covered everything from Estuary Flounder, to Giant Skate, and Every Angler has there own taste so therefore they may have already covered what you personally Enjoy, But we don't all have the means of Travel to get where these fish are being caught, So maybe a couple of more 'Average' articles would be appreciated.

and one last thing. There's no Bass in North Down. :D

Ahh... K2, you keep telling us there are no FISH in North Down, never mind Bass. I think Roger will be quite interested in this thread - he is always looking for feedback on the magazine so many thanks for all the input...

I have to say I do like the magazine and as k2 points out there has been some good material. Its great to have ordinary anglers writing articles. Saying that I shore fish only and boat fishing doesn't interest me and what I like to see is at least one article on how to fish say a particular species such as the flounder article. I also found Bob moss's articles on bait excellent. The sea sellers for me could be put in the bin but I suspect its needed for advertising. I can't complain with the last few months contents but there were a few over the summer that hadn't one article I was interested in.

BTW some one should tell these game anglers fishing for bass on the fly to try a spinner first. Mike laldle had an article on his web site a while back critcising the fly only bass anglers saying why make something harder than it already is. He only started fly fishing to catch bass feeding on sea lice.

Donagh

Here Kieran, Tell Rodger I'll do him an Article :wink: :wink:

ANd ask him are the Hunnies from the Irish Angler Stand single :D

Rather than sound like a complete monster i must also mention that while my personal gripes are my own regaurding the magazine, when looking at it from a wider perspective it probably does make many anglers very happy. Especially those who fish both in the sea and fresh water... I have become disgruntled with many of the sea fishing mags in the last two years as i find i can predict the articles and covers by the month! TSF has a plaice on the cover every march, Cod in December, Bass in September and Big Pollack in January/February etc. The same silly articles about presenting crab etc. it all pretty much repeats itself by the formula the mag uses. Irish Angler so far does not do this and delves deep into particular subjects from the man in the street perspective as all the articles are written by the readers... Not a bunch on the pay roll with designated missions to fulfill the magazines chosen formula. I like Irish Angler for this reason. It would be nice to see more articles for sea fishing but Roger is still only in the early days of the magazine and may yet not have completely found the magazines true direction. We will have to wait and see... I love Jims Boat articles and hope to see many other contributers to the boat fishing articles in the future. :D :D :D

Anyone else getting bored with Seeing Dave Barhams Cod Articles??

Kieran Wrote:

Ahh... K2, you keep telling us there are no FISH in North Down, never mind Bass. I think Roger will be quite interested in this thread - he is always looking for feedback on the magazine so many thanks for all the input...

Mate... There's plenty, Its just that many Northern Irish Anglers seem to be drawn to the Antrim Coast, and who can Blame them with the exceptional fishing up there. (Note Terry Thomas' Article).
and Seriously, If I get the Chance, I will do an Article for IA.

I think 'The Fecker' hit the nail on the head. I agree with everything he said, in fact, I think he's like me in that we pick it up off the shelf each month (or posted in his case) and thinks...hmmmm maybe there's a good large shore section this month, but its not to be....we're inundated with how to tie fly's and deary me the amount of advertisements. I have to say though, I really liked the Cod and Conger article, it was something that each of us shore fishermen have in common in that we ALL try for both when we can. By the by, out of 98 pages, 32 were full of advertisements. I know they have to make money, and this is the way, but why not devote the back pages of the magazine to advertise....so if someone is looking for something, they know where to look. Fair enough, from a marketing point of view it makes sense to have game tackle advertised with a game article, but its nearly every second page.

Harry,
Firstly, as the article states, I am the author of the article in the Irish Angler, Donal and Sean are guests that I fished with.

As you are aware, Monkstown Wall is one of the best-known marks in Cork. It is a venue that’s readily accessible to all anglers and is an asset to our harbour. As you rightly point out, and my article states, the area is targeted on a regular basis by both trawlers and gill-netters. To say that my article will now cause even more commercial activity is, to be frank, a little naive.

It is my firm contention that by publicising the situation that exists at present and contrasting the revenue gained by angling activities compared to commercial activities that we may at some stage see something done on a political level. I haven’t checked back, but I think in every article I have written I have done this.

Though new to article writing, I have always tried to combine information on venues, angling tactics and a good story. Where I can, and feel it’s prudent to do so, I identify the marks I have been fishing. This would be borne out by recent articles on the “Ling Rocks” and the “Turbot Bank” This is the first time I’ve done an article to cover a mark that can be fished from shore or boat. I hope that my articles serve to encourage and help new and improving skippers to get out there and achieve more success at boat angling. If anglers fish the mark and catch some fish then I am delighted.

Every contributor to this forum is entitled to his/her opinion just as readers of the Irish Angler are entitled to theirs. I welcome any comments/criticism of my articles. However, you do not know me sir, I would suggest that if your heading (stupidity and greed) is referring to me then it is both misinformed and ignorant.


Jim Clohessy.

*Whispers* (Go Jim, Go Jim, Go Jim....)

Have to say i agree with Jim on this one. He is VERY protective of his marks and wreck locations to the point of paranoia. I have conversed with him for about three years now and he still lets very little away... saying this i do not blame him. The problem with Cork harbour netters has been going on a long time and i am told that most of the damage is put down to three boats in particular. All trawler men who are worth their salt know exactly where the fish are. after all they spend all their time doing it and their lively hoods depend upon that fact. They know a lot more than any angler! These trawler guys are chancing their arm so the do not have to put to sea saving themselves a fortune on fuel. they know the harbour like the back of their hand cos they have been doing it for a long time. Your concern is duely justified and i salute you and wish everyone felt as strongly. But Monkstown wall is no secret. Nor is ferry point, inch beach, Tip head, the Deep water quay, Balliwilling or any of the other notable marks in Cork. Everyone who fishes in that area knows where they are and you can bet you life the netters do too :wink:

Yep...

Hard to disagree with anything Jim or the Durty Fecker have said there, but in the interests of balance, I would suggest that when Harry posted originally with the title "stupidity and greed" he was undoubtedly refering to the trawlers - certainly that is the way I took it - anyone expecting to retire by writing a few fishing articles is delusional to the point of... well.... poverty!

Cheers, hope we have not scared you off Harry.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to expressing it :)

whatever about the trawlermen, the article is sure to encourage useless anglers clogging up the wall getting in the way of the real shore experts.

Useless like me, for example. I bought my Irish Angler on Saturday and yesterday morning first light made my way to monkstown, stood on the exact spot in the article photo, baited up my single-hook pulley rig (with beads and attractors) and as I prepared to cast, thought: "right, I've done it down to the letter, and if this doesn't work, nothing will"

And I STILL bloody blanked. Three hours and not even a sodding bite.

Jim Clohessy, I hold you personally responsible *mutter, grumble*

:D :D :D

Maybe the trawler men were in during the night and cleaned the place out :lol: :lol: :lol: after all their all avid readers of fishing magazines , looking at catch reports to see were is worth fishing .
They must be topping up on their years of knowledge ,after all most of the places we fish are prob only known because we've heard reports from old fishermen (trawlermen).

I was of course joking. tackle dealer told me later in post-session post mortem that if you can't hit the distance, there's not much point, and I was falling well short of the channel.
more lessons learned, even a blank is never a waste, imho

I think you have to cast a bit further from "the green" than further down the wall towards the monkstown end. Try the long section of pavement hard against the road. You do have to be getting some distance out though but i have seen some shortish casts getting some not so short fish :lol: As the article says you could always get out on a dingy! Just look out for my crack offs :oops: