Safety

Sadly another fisherman lost yesterday off Kilkee, (http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/1105/drowning.html) while not everyone can afford the expense of flotation suit/lifejacket etc, there must be a few things we can be mindful off before setting off for a days sport. Anyone care to contribute any ideas re safety that they have adopted.

One thing I do myself is carry 30ft or so of marine rope. Just to have to hand as a chance for fellow anglers to throw a line should someone fall in. we know how waves/tide/current can make it difficult/impossible to get back ashore. Rolls up small enough to pack on back of knapsack webbing. Thankfully have not had to use it yet.

I believe this guy was an eastern european the second to die in a week out that way. There needs to be some kind of communication to these communities danger of fishing these marks in November. Maybe through the polish section of some of the local newspapers or in tackle shops where feathers are still flying out the door. I was fishing Dunlickey in the summer which is a 100 foot cliff and there was polish guys fishing off there head on drink supping beers between casts and stumbling around.

Donagh

Sadly another fisherman lost yesterday off Kilkee, (http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/1105/drowning.html) while not everyone can afford the expense of flotation suit/lifejacket etc, there must be a few things we can be mindful off before setting off for a days sport.

Is there VAT payable on life jackets and flotation suits? If so, there shouldn't be. It's minor but it might help.

This is, again unfortunately, a sad story. I do think however a bit of education on their side is needed. As Donagh pointed out, some of Polish/Litowanians are fishing on very dangerous marks. If you're not familiar with the area and you don't see locals fishing there these are no-go areas.
Also, these guys come from (near) landlocked counties where the sea is for holidays. One needs to learn to respect the sea even when it appears calm.
The lifting of VAT on safety gear is brilliant but won't work if mentality towards safety, and fishing in general, does not change. A piece of safety gear is just (or maybe more) important as your fishing gear.
...and leave the drink at home....

The guy was at the Blue Pool near Doonbeg which is well known to be dangerous if there is any swell in the sea. It wouldn't be a place to be with a spring tide and south westerly winds. I heard on Clare news that the boats and divers which were still out looking for the body of Polish man were on the scene very quickly and recovered the body. It's very sad - he was there with his wife and 8 year old son. I think the Polish man was a father of four.

Maybe some signs advising of the dangers in different languages are needed.

Very sad to hear this bit of news but as was mentioned previously, not surprising. It remains to be seen what steps will be taken to improve safety, my own gut feeling is that if things continue, we will end up being banned from these marks. These particular marks on the Clare coast take on unprecedented amounts of eejits when the mackerel are around, and they're not all eastern european, plenty of Irish eejits around too.

Anyone who has fished Dunlickey or Ross knows how dangerous these marks are and will vouch for the levels of stupidity that can occur from time to time. The very least anyone can do when visiting marks such as these is to wear a lifejacket or Buoyancy aid. Disregard the foolish who think its wimpy or funny that you should do this. You owe it to whoever it is you fish beside to wear some form of a life preserver as should you fall in, they are the ones left with the horrible decision as to whether to stand and watch you drown or to go in after you. Stick a jacket on and your chances are improved tenfold of being able to stick it out until proper help arrives.

It amazes me, having fished a lot of these marks on the west coast that there are not more tragedies. These 2, within a few days of each other were unfortunately waiting to happen.

A rope is a damn good idea, dont use it for what I saw lads doing a couple of years ago and tie yourself onto the cliff in a gale..... On the subject of Buoyancy aids and lifejackets, buoyancy aids are available from 30 euro up, proper gas inflated lifejackets can be bought for 60 euro up. Its a small price to pay for years of peace of mind.

I still think any measures should be aimed at educating eastern europeans. In the last 3 years if you go out to any mackerel mark on the clare coast easily 80% will be eastern europeans. They also seem to fish all year round where as the irish bashers are well gone at this stage. Fishing the blue pool in november is absolute madness lifejacket or no lifejacket. The place has already been dynimited to stop anglers fishing it.

Donagh

I still think any measures should be aimed at educating eastern europeans.

And that is exactly the problem...
Eastern Europeans fish for food not for the sake of fishing, fishing on dangerous marks and eating anything they catch (undersized or not). That's where we have the so called 'culture clash'.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to blame or generalize Eastern Europeans...

I've started to carry a throw line used for canoeing etc. they come packed in a small stuff sack so you've no fear of snagging gear whilst in your seat box or bag.
http://www.jackson-sports.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=5832

I think some people are perhaps missing the point here. The issue of care and safety applies to everyone. The whole nationality issue is by-the-by, I have seen more than enough in the way of plain stupidity and it tends not to manifest in foreigners alone, there may be a point re their lack of familiarity re the dangers of particular marks etc. but I think that this applies to anyone new to the mark/area - even a jackeen like myself on holidays.

If the local fishing community can recognise the dangers of a praticular mark then would lobbying for signage to that effect at the mark not have some impact (and I know I know - for some people signs are to be ignored). But appear silly that the marks described above are so dangerous - are they signposted that way, would that poor Polish guy have paid attention - perhaps and may have turned and gone home or somewhere safer.

Your dead right BrazelC, I dont share the view that 80% of the people fishing these marks are foreign. The majority, during the summer are Irish and mostly holidaymakers or up from Galway/Limerick city for the day. When you get people travelling up for the day because the mackerel are in or whatever, a swell doesnt usually put them off. I have witnessed some feats of incredible stupidity by people waving rods about on narrow ledges and I am amazed there arent more deaths.

When it comes to signage, I dont know how effective that would be, signs about dumping, parking etc are all ignored....... I dont know what the solution is to be honest but I am afraid that sad incidents such as this could lead to areas being closed off. I think local tackle dealers could show a bit of initiative, the majority of these lads will have paid a visit to the local tackle shop prior to heading out to stock up on feathers etc. Taking into account tide size, weather conditions etc how difficult would it be each day to have a list of recommended and no go areas in different languages?

I can only say what I have seen and what others tell me. It is not unfair to say that 80% of anglers on the cliffs are foreigners these days. You can think I'm a racist or lier all you want. Yes their are irish doing stupid things through ignorance and stupiditiy just as foreign nationals are but I can't see anything wrong with targeting foreign nationals to inform them of the dangers over irish angler as they are by far the majority fishing these marks and are fishing these marks in numbers well into the winter with swells rolling up.

Just one ither thing I wouldn't ever seen the point in wearing a lifejacket off Dunlickey and never have.

Donagh

[round_ourway]

It's a horrific time for the family and see your father and husband washed away would be traumatic.

So in the case of declaring the area a 'no go area' would be the same scheme that they employ on the road and declare a death/black spot. I know for sure it would raise people awareness and I would certainly turn back

Last edited by round_ourway on Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

Donagh, whats the deal with the attitude man?

It is not unfair to say that 80% of anglers on the cliffs are foreigners these days. You can think I'm a racist or lier all you want.

Nobody for one moment is suggesting you are a racist or a liar. I might be suggesting you have your numbers wrong but certainly nothing more sinister than that :roll: You have your opinion, I have mine. I dont believe for one moment that 80% of the people on these marks are eastern european, the majority I have seen are from Limerick City and Galway City with of course eastern europeans mixed in. At this time of year there may be a grain of truth in the statement but in general, I cant say I agree.

As regards your statement

Just one ither thing I wouldn't ever seen the point in wearing a lifejacket off Dunlickey and never have.

Anyone fishing dangerous rock marks such as these should have a jacket on and I think its ridiculous and irresponsible of you to suggest otherwise.

I'm not looking to get into a row here, far from it but I do think that we should be targetting everybody, as BrazelC stated.

I didn't mean to be argumentative but the written word can cause problems due to the way its interpreted. I stand by my comments that in my experience the majority in last couple of years fishing these marks are non-nationals. I don't fish ross so maybe it true what you say down there.

As regards Dunlickey I've yet to meet someone there with a life jacket on including any club members or member of SAI forum.

Donagh

I didn't mean to be argumentative but the written word can cause problems due to the way its interpreted. I stand by my comments that in my experience the majority in last couple of years fishing these marks are non-nationals. I don't fish ross so maybe it true what you say down there.

As regards Dunlickey I've yet to meet someone there with a life jacket on including any club members or member of SAI forum.

Donagh

Of course BrazelC is spot on saying safety applies to everyone.

I have given this some thought recently as one of my kids is interested in fishing and I made her wear a PDF. Naturally the question was why I didn't have to wear one. I since went out and bought proper lifejackets and a throw rope but it occurs to me that these things only marginally improve your chances of survival if you are swept out to sea. I now have to consider every fishing mark because I have to take a child's safety into consideration.

It's in human nature to take chances otherwise we wouldn't go outside the door. In fairness, who would in their right mind would fish Dunlickey Castle but we all do because it is productive and in some ways exillerating. I went there only once this summer and it was frightening. People were careless and didn't seem to be aware of the dangers though they couldn't be more obvious.

As Donagh says, a large percentage of people fishing the Clare coast are Eastern Europeans. There are more people fishing who seem to be unaware of the dangers of the sea. I think I accord the sea a lot of respect and expect the unexpected but a lot of people (doesn't what nationality they are) don't. And the reasons are that they are willing to take a chance or that they have no experience of the sea and what it can do and this applies as much to Irish people as it does to other nationalities.

Dangerous marks should be notified to fishermen as they are to swimmers. Nobody can ignore the fact that two men have lost their lives fishing marks that locals knew were dangerous. You have to acknowledge the fact that there is a large number of foreign nationals fishing and aim a campaign at them. Signs should be understood by all, including tourists.

Sorry for going on.

A life jacket would have saved that fella at the weekend surely, given the reported fast response by people in the area. I personally wouldnt set foot on the cliffs at Dunlickey or Ross without having a jacket on, same goes for anyone I'm with, and I find it hard to understand a different mentality to that. A good automatic, gas inflated, self righting lifejacket would give you a hell of a larger chance of survival upon a fall from one of these marks. A small price at 60 euro or so. Unfortunately, there doesnt seem to be a culture of wearing lifejackets in this country, given the number of people I have observed in small boats around the country without them and the funny looks you get if, on a bumpy charter you slip one on. I wear a PFD when fishing surf beaches if wading over knee high is necessary.

I didnt mean to pick you up wrong Donagh, different marks on different days I'm sure have different crowds. We can only comment on our own experiences.

I think its worth remembering, whenever we talk about regulation/rules/compulsory memberships that the vast, vast majority of anglers would fish less than 10 times a year, mainly during summer. Now I know that many of these are the hated mack bashers but if we are honest how many of us got our start in angling doing just that during the summer holidays?
Accidents will happen. There will never be a situation where angling is 100% safe because there are so many nature variables involved. And beside that freak accidents do happen, people die in their houses every day!
I think the key is not to take the piss. Don't try to climb down cliffs in force 10s with tonnes f gear on your back, try to avoid fising on rocks at night on your own etc.
Regulating angling would be pointless because of the above. The safety regulations of boat angling work because a boat is a small inspectable item and is run as a business.

Just to clear something up I'm not against lifejackets and agree they should be worn and do wear them on normal rock marks. I just don't wear them in Dunlickey as there is a zero chance of being swept in as its 100 foot up and if you trip and fall my thinking would be you'd be dead anyway. Maybe I'm wrong.

Donagh