Kilcoole and Near Courtown, 6-Nov-2008

[uvox]

People:me, Diego
Duration:2:00 pm-2: am
* Kilcoole 2 pm – 7 pm
* Near Courtown 8 pm – 2 am
Tide: rising, turning, then falling again
Weather: cold, clear sky, calm sea, half moon.
Bait: mostly lug, some squid and rag
Rigs: flappers, pulley
Results: Bass, whiting, coalie, dabs, rockling


Kilcoole
===========
While waiting for Diego, I started off very badly by discovering floating weed was present (a recurrent problem at this venue), so moved north up the beach, but it never really cleared. Then I discovered a large tear in my waders – the hard way. Then another beach user allowed his dogs to rummage through my stuff while my back was turned - one of them eating my squid (shame I had no dioxin sausages on me). This led to an exchange of words, which on my part included “Ian Gold’s Tackle Developments rod stand” and “proctologist”, immediately excluding me from the 2009 nominations for the Rodney King “Why Can’t We All Get Along?” award.

When Diego arrived we set up further north at the bend in the beach. I picked up a couple of rockling, two small whiting, and a coalie on lug, but mostly the “weed fish” (the weed there looked like Tina Turner’s hairstyle on Private Dancer for some reason). Diego was getting stuck into the “weed fish” there too and lost a few rigs. After several hours of this nonsense, and no improvement with the tide turning and it even being dark, we decided to fish near Courtown.

Won’t be back at Kilcoole until we see reports of codling throwin themselves on the beach ready filleted. Rubbish.

Near Courtown
===============
Got going again after 8 pm, first buying some neoprene socks in the Sea Angling Centre to counter the wet socks from the leaky waders, and Diego refilling the old lamp with gas.

Within 5 mins we were into fish. Close in too (20-40 metres). So we were busy for the next 6 hours or so dealing with bass, whiting, and dabs.

In total we got six small bass – all released, about 30 whiting, four dabs (we think – see other posting at viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18895). 90% of them on lug, but I had a few whiting on rag and squid too. One of the whiting threw up a whole shrimp, so I guess they are eating anything when they’re on the rampage.

We got two good flats – one 29 cm and the other 24 cm. Biggest whiting was 28 cm, and about half a dozen were over 26 cm - 18 keepers.

It was freezing hard, with ice forming on the rods and all the gear, and the car thermometers showing 3 or 4 degrees under. Still, who cares when you’re catching fish and drive home carefully?

We had a great night, just shows you gotta keep at it.

I wasn’t back home until 4:00 am, Diego 3:30 am.[attachment=1]6-nov-2008_courttown_catch.jpg[/attachment]

[diego]

I was going mad in Killcoole. I didn't see a bite, seaweed all over the place... not good!

BTW... It was nice to me you in person Uvox

Diego

[uvox]

you too. and now you also believe me about my hair....

[oneillphil]

Why bother keeping all those small fish, personally I wouldn't keep any fish under 30cm. I know some won't go back alive but i just use bigger hooks to try avoid them a bit if i can.

This is not a dig at you personally but this is something I think is encouraged in competitions where points are given for small fish which encourages people to fish with more small hooks
to catch lots and lots of small fish to get more and more points and I just don't get it to
be honest.
I would rather Blank and leave a mark where there is nothing big enough worth catching.
I thought the idea was to get a little sport but where is the sport in using small hooks and catching 2 or 3 small fish on a trace that you can’t even feel.

I have seen people on here giving out yards about stuff that is nonsense but not about this and I have to lay some of the blame on competition organisers and rule makers for the promotion of catching as many small fish as possible many of which don't go back alive which
is how points seem to be racked up and competitions won.

In years gone by I used to fish competitions and there were different minimum sizes for each fish before it counted in the competition 45cm for bass, dogs etc, 30cm for coalies, cod, Pollock etc, 25cm whiting dabs etc. 20cm is too small in my opinion. Why not bring this sort of thing back use bigger hooks for proper sized fish which will reduce the chances of so many small fish.
Does anyone enjoy reeling in small fish after small fish or does one decent one make
the session.

[petekd]

Phil, I think you're being a bit unfair there. The vast majority of whiting do not survive being caught and surely its better they go to some use than being left to float away downtide. I disagree with you that using bigger hooks deters them, those little feckers can impale themselves on pretty much anything and if that fails they end up lassooed in the snood in their urgency to come ashore.

I think is encouraged in competitions where points are given for small fish which encourages people to fish with more small hooks
to catch lots and lots of small fish to get more and more points and I just don't get it to
be honest.

In years gone by I used to fish competitions and there were different minimum sizes for each fish before it counted in the competition 45cm for Bass, dogs etc, 30cm for coalies, cod, Pollock etc, 25cm whiting dabs etc. 20cm is too small in my opinion. Why not bring this sort of thing back use bigger hooks for proper sized fish which will reduce the chances of so many small fish.

There arent enough of those sized fish available to shore anglers in most areas to make a competition worthwhile at those limits. If you fish those limits today , on most beaches, you're going to end up with freak results whereby an angler who is LUCKY enough to poke out fish above the limits wins. Its that simple.

I take on board what you're saying and agree somewhat about preferring to fish for bigger fish but you can only catch whats in front of you and if its a case of small fish or blanking, I'll take the small fish please.

[uvox]

i have no idea about hook sizes and regulations. that's an issue for you to take up with competition organizers.
i use 1/0s which seems reasonable for the type of fish we're most likely to counter and want to keep.

we're as conservation minded as the next guy. if somebody returns small whiting and all school bass/under 40 cm/keeps to limits, but keeps a few whiting and dabs (edible after a bit of work and hardly a threatened species) in the 25-30 cm range then that's fine with me. if you want to do otherwise, or are lucky enough to be in that position, then go ahead.

you'd think we were out there with size 10s and 12s...

[adam2040]

fished kilcoole yesterday from 3 to 9 with no weed at all very pleaseant fishing.

[diego]

Why bother keeping all those small fish, personally I wouldn't keep any fish under 30cm. I know some won't go back alive but i just use bigger hooks to try avoid them a bit if i can.

To be honest with you I thought they were big enough to be eaten, I filleted the fish and pan fried them. No regrets with that.
I don't want to start a debate, but I don't see the big deal to keep some whiting, specially when there are tons of them around.
All the small whiting and small flat fish were released (small in my option). No questions about the bass, this year I only kept three Bass even if I caught more than three over 40 cm.

It's good to see that we have a minimum size for the Bass (40 cm) but I think that we should also have a maximum size (let's say 70 cm) as the big fish are the one that spawn.

This is a topic that my friend Ashley will love as he always give out about the poor quality of the fish around Ireland this days and the fact that we (non commercial fisherman) are doing nothing to improve it.

Diego

[uvox]

[quote="adam2040"]fished kilcoole yesterday from 3 to 9 with no weed at all very pleaseant fishing.[/quote]

Did ye catch anything?

Any dogs of the fishy variety or the four-legged (they taste just like chicken btw)?

[oneillphil]

Hi Pete,

Cheers for the reply I didn't want it to sound like I was Getting on to uvox or anything and no offence was ment its just a general thing to be honest.
On the small fish we will have to agree to disagree it would rather move on or blank.
Regarding competitions if a Angler picks up a big fish is it luck or skill (i'm sure there are arguements either way) and in a competition is it the most fish or the best fish quality or quantity that should win.
I'm sure in these days when everyone is so conservation minded etc maybe an increase in the
size limit would be a good thing

Phil

[uvox]

No offence taken.

I generally try and avoid the pin whiting situations purely on bait conservation grounds, but we were beyond that. otherwise we could have gone to ennereilly....

[fishermannum1]

[quote="diego"

It's good to see that we have a minimum size for the Bass (40 cm) but I think that we should also have a maximum size (let's say 70 cm) as the big fish are the one that spawn.[/quote]

i totally agree 100% on that diego,
if your getting your bass and want to keep one for the pot,then take a small one(over legal limit) and release the bigger ones so they can continue spawning.
i would take a bass for the pot, but never a big one, i always return them.......

[adam2040]

there were no dogs but there was plenty of evidence of dogs , got some dabs and then a few whites after dark also got a 2 lb coalie, had heard of the weed probelms but it was easy fishing.

[eyesreilly]

Why bother keeping all those small fish, personally I wouldn't keep any fish under 30cm. I know some won't go back alive but i just use bigger hooks to try avoid them a bit if i can.

I would rather Blank and leave a mark where there is nothing big enough worth catching.
I thought the idea was to get a little sport but where is the sport in using small hooks and catching 2 or 3 small fish on a trace that you can’t even feel.

Does anyone enjoy reeling in small fish after small fish or does one decent one make
the session.

You make some good points there Oneillphil and in an ideal world i would agree with you. A world where our shores are brimming with fish, but overfishing has done away with that world (and not from the shore). Pics of fish in sinks/pots whatever, always generate these debates. I agree with you about keeping fish under 30 cms. Even whiting over that size mightnt have much flesh on them. As for the hooks,,you can catch tiddlers on large hooks and large fish on small hooks (ask Al and Jordan ) so big hooks dont always guarantee big fish.
To be honest i'd rather catch a small fish than blank and i dont think it makes sense to give up on a mark because you've only caught small fish there. Theres always the hope of catching a bigger fish next time. I'd have nowhere to fish if i gave up on everywhere i caught small fish (and i wouldnt have caught the few big ones that i did get).

Maybe theres something wrong with me but I do enjoy reeling in fish after fish,,,,even small ones.
I've never competition fished,,,but it seems to me that the fish size rules were brought in reluctantly due to a decrease in numbers of bigger fish being caught,, and that the clubs are only reacting to the situation that exists out there. From what i've read on this site most clubs encourage young anglers to put small fish into a bucket of seawater to recover and this has dramatically improved their chances of survival.

I used to keep small whiting for pike bait for a friend of mine as i thought they didnt survive ,,,but got some advice in Bray Harbour one night from Harry to put them back as theyre hardier than you think . I've been doing this ever since and most do go back if youre careful, use a wet towel and ease them back in , or even better advice from the site here, put them in a bucket of seawater for a while.

Diego,,,,I've no problem with anyone keeping a few for the pot but forgetting about the rights and wrongs for a minute,,,,,how do you get any flesh from those tiddlers,,,i've got a few this year,,,all over 35cms(4) and i got some small fillets from them which were very tasty ,,,,but these were big,fat 35+cm whiting . , and still the fillets were small, (actually before he reminds me,,,,,,Fishface might have given me a couple of them ),,Well done to yourself and uvox on the session by the way

[eric]

have to say my two cents here, im happy with the 20cm limit for competitions , to be honest i think the minimum size of fish should be abolished and all fish should count with a minimum hook size in order. for me competition angling is about catching whats in front of your peg if it so happens to be a 20cm whiting im happy to do it. it takes just as much skill to pluck out a 20cm in scratchy conditions than it is just catch the roving bass.

[uvox]

Incidentally, why assume there's a problem with keeping or eating small fish provided there's no conservation issue? Or that there's only one way to cook them? Or why not eat the heads and tails anyway? Why not make fish stock out of whole 15 cm whiting, or fish fingers, or whatever if you want to?

Seems a lot safer than sausages and rashers too.

I have some Chinese friends who were totally delighted to get the carcass from a filleted codling I caught. Made some kinda soup out of it. Even offered to give me money for it. Different cultures... we should consider Ireland's multicultural now.

And why pay for cat food in Lidl? Ennereilly whiting just as good. Dog eats them too.

[Al and Jordan]

Seems a lot safer than sausages and rashers too.

i have to admit at first glance all those small whiting in the tub seemed a bit excessive. but if they popped their clogs i suppose theres no sense in chucking them back dead for the gulls to feast on. and like you say, i supose theres more than one way to eat fish other than taking fillets off em not necessarily my preference, but we're all different . the idea about the bucket of sea water is pretty nifty. i'll give it a go on our next outing and see if it improves the survival rate. but i would be a bit annoyed if someone went out to target wee fish for eating. any of the small fish we get that go belly up we keep for our cat who loves them. i've seen her polish off 3 or 4 in one sitting but as a general rule we stick to the size limits stated on our sea measure. just my 2 cents lads

[nicefish]

Catch +release or keep? Personnal choice end of story.

[eyesreilly]

I have some Chinese friends who were totally delighted to get the carcass from a filleted codling I caught. Made some kinda soup out of it. Even offered to give me money for it. Different cultures... we should consider Ireland's multicultural now.

.

Old Chinese proverb says "we will eat anything on legs except the table"

[fishinmidget]

Incidentally, why assume there's a problem with keeping or eating small fish provided there's no conservation issue? Or that there's only one way to cook them? Or why not eat the heads and tails anyway? Why not make fish stock out of whole 15 cm whiting, or fish fingers, or whatever if you want to?

the main reason behind not taking small fish would be to let the fish breed at least once, so then there is another generation there for you to take next time you go fishing.

also, you say whats the problem if theres no conservation issue? simple, if everyone did it there soon would be a conservation issue.

just me 2 cents.